Diary Complete First Grow Diary, May 2023

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

@LitItGrown@Naughty.Psychonaut Thanks for responding guys! I was having a little panic, worrying that now I may be doomed to have seeded indoor 

I had no idea that it could add a further risk of seeds. Already patched up what I could and taped over the LEDs. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Only a pleasure bud hahah yeah people really don't mention it often enough, but don't stress too much, it's like when you're a kid and your parents tell you not to go swimming in the rain or you'll get sick, but then you do it anyway and you don't get sick. this is when the old saying of "the exception doesn't make the rule" comes into play, cause it sure does increase your chances. just cause you didn't get sick that one time doesn't mean you'll never get sick, if you keep doing it, it will get you. 

I may be mistaken here, but I think in a lot of cases with plants making nanners cause of stress the pollen will be less and less viable, but will still knock up the plant. seeds will be much less, a lot of times the plant just starts forming the seed shell so it's a bunch of soft green seeds (which can be more of a headache than fully formed seeds) some seeds will form but will be duds and then there will be some seeds that are fully viable all depending on the genetics, how stable the female is and at what point did what take place all that stuff. I have heard of guys plucking nanners with twiesers as soon as they see them, but then you gotta narrow down why the plant is making them.

 

 

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

@Naughty.Psychonaut  It seems I jinxed it   Found some small, hard green seeds around some of my bud sites. Only on some bud sites, not others.  After scouring the two biggest plants I found about maybe 6 in total.

I can't believe it. I'm assuming it was the LEDs in the tent + my "LST" bordering more on HST for these autos. So, what do I do now?  

Edit: Upon doing more panic research I also read that keeping lights too bright and too close can cause light stress. I raised my lights a bit and turned them down. Not sure if that was it, probably too late now? I didn't really notice these before lowering and my lights and increasing the light strength. But correlation=/=causation so idk

Edited June 26, 2023 by AK-47 Gold Arabesque

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

aaaaah brother I am sorry to hear that. at least you still yielding and gona have some smoke to enjoy  

yeah, now it's about narrowing down the possibilities of what could lead to this.

do you see nanners or just seeds?

a plant wont go directly to making seeds from stress, needs pollen to start that process, hemie will throw ball sacs like males, those ball sacs are nanners that haven't opened. if you don't see any signs of hermie then the pollen is coming from somewhere else.

remember tents with negative pressure suck dust in, so if any stray pollen is in the air or on you or your clothes when going into the then you could knock up indoor plants. - when your tent is closed and the sides suck in =negative pressure. people combat this by closing all passive intakes and running the same size inline fan into the tent as going out to keep a possitive pressure, but then you gotta filter the air intake with a carbon filter as pollen still gets through normal air filters.

I am glad you mention the L/HST, because any kinda stress is 10 fold on a auto, just cause you see or hear of one guy stressing an auto and it doesn't make seeds doesn't mean that will be in all cases. like the dude with the auto that showed you he trained his so yours should be fine, that's just not the way the plants work. the general consensus on autos - to get the best out of them you don't stress them- so a double negative here is that potentially if that dude didn't stress his he might have had even better results, and the other being what I mentioned before about the exception doesn't make the rule, the guy who stresses his and gets away with it is an exception, doesn't mean all autos will be fine with the same treatment. 

if you see hermie/nanner signs and it's confined to one branch or bud or area of the plant = stray light 

if you see hermie/nanner signs all over the plant it's light intensity, usually it'll be more at the top sites.

in both situations it could also be something else. the reason a plant will try to revert in order to reproduce is because it feels threatened enough to have to forcefully make more of itself to carry on it's lineage. this could be rootzone related problems, a plants rhizosphere is like the gut of a human, when talking human microbiome it refers to your gut health, when talking plant microbiome you talking rootzone, if the microbiome is out of balance, meaning PH is off for too long or EC is way out you may cause a plant to hermie that way. rootburn during flower caused by salt build up will lead to nutrient lockout and cause this too... so many things to look at and tick off, but luckily now you already got stray lights sorted out.

[LitItGrown]

Sorry to hear that my man. Genetics plays a huge factor. Strong genetics are so much less likely to stress under LOW stress training or even high stress training for that matter.

Lol and "This dude" just shared his personal experience, saying you, @AK-47 Gold Arabesque should be fine and to relax a bit, and please don't get me wrong your enthusiasm is super awesome, but you do seem very nervous about the grow (which is also understandable). So, I just want to say try to relax and don't lose your momentum or enthusiasm. Remember, setbacks are a part of growing, as in life. And as in life there are always room to bounce back, it's how you handle it that makes that difference. (I posted my Harvest pics in my grow diary - if you wanted to have a look at the final results) 

So I would check my basics and environment, like @Naughty.Psychonaut suggested. PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT advice these are just comments from my own meandering experience.

In my opinion the personal interaction between you and your plants is also a factor in the entire scheme of things. I have lots of little tweaks I do, that works for me and my grows. Growing shouldn't be stressful, your plants sense your energy too, so.., bly kalm soos 'n dagga walm! 

Advice that's worth maybe looking into -> What to do if your plants hermed.

Happy growing

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by LitItGrown

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

that's very true, genetics play a huge roll. with photoperiods you can run a clone again and again to see if you can get different results, but the one and done thing with autos you will never really know unless you know how stable the genetic is. 

I think most of the seed banks that "breed their own" seeds that have many different strains they are calling their own that we have all seen everywhere before. eg. local SeedBankX will have an auto girl scout cookie for sale in their packaging, but they did not actually breed that genetic, cause we all know it to be something that already exists. They also can't open a pack of Ripper seeds and throw the seeds into a pack with their name on it and call it their own, infact they will loose money also as these seeds are relatively cheaper than the legit stuff from the reputed breeders such as Ripper, Inhouse, Compound, Square1, Riot. a lot of the US guys got the legit shit. these local big time seed bank guys with bulk bulk sales and ALL the strains make F1's or just do small pheno hunts, select the winner and BX it and sell those seeds for cheap, at least it's better than F1's, but a lot of times they kinda just "pollen chuck" and hope for the best.

no way you can do legit work on that scale so quick, plus the names give it away. our local master breeder here is Totemic, look at is work, you'll see new strain names cause it's his own crosses and he works one or two strains at a time till he feels good about it, not 100 strains all at once and just one pollen chuck and done. 

I've grown out some biltong and buds photoperiods under the sun, their setup us a good example. Just before I started growing indoor. Phenos didn't look anything alike. was just some average weed, not even good weed. grew about 10 different seeds of the same strain before I gave up on digging for a good pheno. don't get me wrong, some guy somewhere got a pack of BnB and he got a winner pheno, probably a few people, but those guys got lucky. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

bunch of local breeders on instagram doing some craaaaaaaaazy stuff too, keep an eye on that thread Igrowdagga got going, he is growing out some local  

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Thank you guys for responding and giving feedback, I really appreciate it!

@Naughty.Psychonaut That's very insightful. I don't see nanners at all. Have checked the plants thoroughly. All just normal pistils. That little "ballsack" on 95% of the buds has pistils coming out, and no seed inside. If I look closely, I can find a "ballsack" here and there that has no pistil coming out, and has a small green seed growing inside. This seems to be on the lower branches, and more underneath bud sites rather than on actual buds as far as I can see.

My tent pressure I am very finicky about. I check to see how the walls are, and do my best to make sure pressure is always even. Also have a bug/dust screen on the intake. But this pollen theory can very well be the cause. 

@LitItGrown Your final results are amazing man! You're completely right. I am an anxious person, and this project was also to help teach me deal with setbacks as they are a normal part of living.

I got my EC Pen today, as mentioned before that was something I completely neglected. 

I've adjusted what I can, and now I'm just going to ride out the rest of the grow and hope for the best.

In hindsight I find that these are the most likely culprits:

• Not checking EC this grow.
• HST rather than LST 
• Stray lights during dark period

I don't want to blame genetics or the fact that its an auto, because there is definitely a lot that could have been done better.

Thanks again, appreciate all the kind words and feedback

Edit: In the YouTube video Lit posted, they mentioned stray light. In the comments of the video someone said: "You just hit the nail on the head! I put my dehumidifier in on the last few weeks left of flower and sure enough I got a few immature seeds on the bottom of a couple ladies from the blue light" My dehumidifier also has a blue light. Even with the tape over it, its still a faint blue light through the plastic. And I'm having the same "immature seeds on the bottom issue".  Could be the reason honestly. Need to remove that LED.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by AK-47 Gold Arabesque

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

@Naughty.Psychonaut Do I need to kill the plants that are generating a few seeds? Are my other plants at risk? I was thinking of just removing the few seeds, and keep going with the grow. I don't see any nanners or flower/pollen sites. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

15 hours ago, AK-47 Gold Arabesque said:

@Naughty.Psychonaut Do I need to kill the plants that are generating a few seeds? Are my other plants at risk? I was thinking of just removing the few seeds, and keep going with the grow. I don't see any nanners or flower/pollen sites. 

Hey bud. naaaaah, no need to kill them you still getting weed from them even though the weed will have seeds, I am sure you are ok with few seeds in your buds? 

Other plants might be at risk too, not cause of the one making seeds, but because of what ever factor is contributing to those making the seeds. if it's pollen coming through your bug barriers then all plants are at risk, if you see nanners all plants are at risk. can never dictate where the pollen will fall. 

the ball sac we talking bout is 2 different things. you talking bout the "calyx" where the seed forms. I am talking bout pure male flower will throw balls, they're little pollen sacs, so I call em ball sacs, they are bunches of those nanners that haven't opened yet, this is what I am talking about - 

nr.1 - ball sac (pollen sac) not a sack with the K like a bag, sac means something else cause sometimes the pollen is in a tube or on a stamen or in a cup, every plants anatomy is different, but all pollen carriers have pollen sacs, kinda just refferes to where the pollen is kept inside the plant. 

nr.2 - the pollen sac opened and exposed the nanners, the nanners are the little banana-like looking things inside the ball sac, those nanners releasing the pollen. 

If you see a plant throw nanners alone it's something different than a plant that went hermie. 

but yeah, in your case I would try get all stray lights out, then try run a photoperiod plant. as soon as you're able to you clone the shit out of the plant to make replicas, you run that plant as a control test and if things go wrong you have replicas of the exact same phenotype to run again and again, as a control to see where you hitting problem areas. 

I am a good comfortable 75 to 90% sure that the issues you're having with your plants is cause it's autos. autos stress like a bitch, one tiny wrong move and they show you the finger. photo periods, even with loadshedding, would have given you much more weed and much less stress. and if you hit a wall, photoperiods can be turned around right before their grave. autos don't even want one hickup. I get loadshedding I still fill my tents with buds wall to wall, cause I grow photoperiods.  

the auto movement and the push for beginners to begin with autos cause "they're easier" is absolute bullshit. 

it's the same as the first time you put a new game on you wana play on expert mode. 

you'll see, run a photoperiod as control plant - it'll help you identify problems in your tent + you'll get WAY more weed + photos are way more forgiving allowing for more mistakes or environment that's not dialed in.

 

[TheLazyFisherman]

I second Naughty. 

If there is not enough pollen to make it visible you will have minimal seeds. 

My white prussian outdoor couldn't handle the summer heat and averaged 5-8 seeds per big bud... Was still a solid smoke. 

Keep the seeds...you might find something very special 

 

 

 

 

 

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Thank you for responding guys! 

Thought an update would be fitting.

June 28

61 days in for these two bigger ones, 52 days for others.

Little under canopy herm bud 

Others still in pre-flower

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Plants are looking great brother!!

[LitItGrown]

Dude your plants are looking awesome! (much better than mine at that stage TBH) 

Looks like your setting yourself up for a good harvest dude, well done!

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

6 July Update

My two Critical Auto shrubs (lol) are doing well. The buds have really fattened, and the smell is good. Very sticky. I haven't even seen any more seeds, which makes me happy. The canopy is very dense due to short and stocky nature of the plant caused by my overtraining, so I'm constantly monitoring for bud-rot. Humidity is controlled though, 39-45% RH, so no issues yet. These two little bushes are about 9 or 10 days away from their 11 weeks life cycle coming to an end.

As for the other 3 younger plants which are a week or two behind, I took off 90% of the tie-downs, as to avoid the same overtraining. They have really responded well, and I've seen some explosive stretching. What I found interesting, is that one of the bud sites split into two at the top. Mutation? idk xD

And just because, here is a photo of the tent in its entirety:

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by AK-47 Gold Arabesque
Added one more photo

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Harvested, wet trimmed and now drying the two biggest. Video quality is trash but here are two clips. I think my dry conditions are good. Temps and humidity seem to be in-line with what is recommended online.

 

 

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

I feel like some of the buds I "over-trimmed"? They aren't as dense, and seem to be drying faster than the others. Probably supposed to leave on more of the sugar leaves. My next three plants when they are ready I'll try a dry trim rather. Or take off only big fan leaves. Other buds seem happier, where I left on more of the leaves because 5 hours into trimming my hands got sore and I got lazy. 

Have all the larf drying on a piece of cardboard beneath the others.

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Yew, bro that looks great  

Well done!!  

The suagr leaf amount differs form genetic to genetic and from plant to plant, but when the weed is just for you then bag appeal doesn't really matter all that much. I know a dude that jars his buds with very very minimal trimming just cz he figures thats how he likes it. 

Buying indoor you expect to find a solid dense bud with big fat resin coated calyxes instead of a bunch of leafyness, but you notice now as you continue to grow that those "perfectly formed buds" are all mostly phenotype related and then your condotions and how you look after them play a smaller roll. When pheno hunting one of the key factors people hunt for is the plant that offers the least trimming work when, big chunky buds with very little leaf. Not every genetic will make "instagram worthy" buds, but even out of the gene pool that does make perfect buds there will be a phenotype that makes better looking buds than the rest. 

2 big players in bud density will also be your lights and overall plant health, but if the genetic phenotype don't allow it, you can put it under the best light with the best health it'll still just make airy leafy buds.

 

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Day 5 of dry.

My cupboard has been consistently at 15-18 degrees Celsius, and 55-65 % RH 

The one plant on the left, which I trimmed wet properly (little to no leaves) was becoming crunchy on the outside, and bounced back when squeezed. Most but not all of the stems made a snapping sound when bent, but didn't break clean off. I did the jar test, where I put a bud in the jar and after an hour checked. The inside of the jar got moist, so it still needs to dry more. But, I felt like it was drying too fast just hanging there, due to the lack of leaves. So, into the brown paper bag it goes (thank you Romans)  I made sure to leave enough stems to give airflow through all the buds.

 

Thank you @Weskush and @West Coast Vaper for the tip on "sweating" the bud  I will open the bag and shake it up gently every day or two.

As for the other plant, its still very green, leafy and not dry to the touch. Needs more time. 

I'd appreciate any and all criticism/guidance. Not really sure when to pull the trigger with this drying process, in terms of moving the bud from one stage to the next i.e drying, sweating, then buck and cure in terploc. 

Probably just get a feel for it the more you do it? 

 

[Bos]

We prefer to wet trim due to coastal humidity and then hang untill the "twig snap" stage. Sometimes a fan is used for indirect air movement on muggy/rainy days. Then they go to the jars, leave some headspace - fill to 70%. Monitor your jars RH, don't like exceesing 70%-still too wet, dry some more. Keep an eye out for possible mold growth. If it stays in the low 60's, you should be good. Burp your jars once or twice a day, note the jars' scent as time goes by, it'll go from fresh/grassy to stinky/sweaty and eventually you'll notice fragrant terpenes start developing. 

As a rule we jars cure for minimum 30days before we test, some strains can go up to 90days before the good smooth flavours develop. 

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Buds dry enough to pop off main stem, but still bounce back. Did a final trim on some of the smaller leaves, and now curing one batch. Other branches need a little longer. 

The bud is leafy, but I'm quite happy. Still have three other plants I'm letting flower for longer before harvesting.

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Last harvest done. No more plants, final stretch. Left the last three Critical + Amnesia Haze in darkness for 3 days. Final plant lifespan was 93 days, a bit over the recommended. Definitely was needed to let them grow longer, as I can see these three are fatter and have more trichomes than the other two I harvested earlier. 

Have learnt a lot  The other plants just smoke and taste better every day, curing really does wonders. Thank you for sharing with my journey 

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

Final update for this diary  bud shots of the Amnesia Haze

My Critical's I wet trimmed, so with the Amnesia I chose dry trim to experiment. I also did the whole 2-3 days of darkness before harvest this time, just to try it. Not sure if it contributed, but these are for sure frostier than the Criticals. To be fair these did flower a lot longer, as needed with Haze strains. 

15 days controlled dry in the dark tent, whole plants with leaves. Long and slow. 

Dry trimmed now, and time to cure. Quite "fluffy" bud, a fair amount of leaves and not very dense. But for a first attempt I'm happy. 

[Ill_Evan]

Cure it good!

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Yew!! looking lekker boet

The fluff, is mostly due to genetic potential, but only "mostly". no doubt with some fine tuning the buds could look slightly different, but the room for improvement on the genetic will be limited. 

a plant, or genetic, is a set blueprint that just needs to unfold. the amount of resin it makes is fixed in the genetic "code", you can't make a genetic make more of what it's "coded" to make. You must chek the dudes breeding, coming down to the last BX before you can call it TIBL, to stabilise the traits you selected you'll put a batch through torture test to see how resistant they are to pest and diseases, then select the winner there to take further. leave them in absolute shit grow conditions and in the end you still get dank sticky resin coated buds, but what will be affected is the health of said buds and resin that's on the bud meaning, the resin glands may just not be fully matured, chemical composition inside the resin glands aren't fully developed, over all plant health will make the plant BRIX% drop to shit, this is the plants carbohydrate reading, meaning how much sugar is in the plant and if you got a shit BRIX% you can do whatever you want the plant will taste like shit. buds just wont be properly formed and maybe during torture you gona get mites and all kinda unwanted shit, but nothing can change the genetic code that the plant comes with.

Those being two completely different genetics you can't really compare amount of resin at all. Even if you had the same genetic but 2 different seeds they will produce different amounts of resin. They will be different phenos. Check my current grow I got 5 x same genetic but different phenos, out of the 5 there will be 1 winner, 1 that's clearly more resinous than the rest, and they same genetics. Can't compare them, but I know I should, cause I am looking for the winner, expecting them to make the exact same amount of resin to begin with would be my mistake.

Unless plants are clones of eachother from the same mother you can't compare them like this. 

The extended dark hours before harvest is a myth, here is why - 

You know about "Apogee" and "Perigee"? 

The moon orbits the earth not in a perfect circle, but rather eliptical. 

Apogee is the point where the moon is furthest away from the earth so the moon looks smaller. 

Perigee is the point where the moon is closest to the earth. 

As we all know, the position of the moon has an impact on the bodies of water on earth. It effects the tides of the oceans, it has an effect on the water inside your body, inside the earth... basically every atom that carries a water molecule will be effected by the position of the moon. 

The earth and the moon has about the same gravitational pull as eachother, but earth is almost mostly water.

The low viscosity measurement of water allows the gavitational pull of the moon to "pull" on water, but just as magnets that are attracted to eachother, once they're too far away they loose attraction. This means, when the moon is closer to the earth the ocean will be at high tide, but not all over the world -cause water is confined - buldging to the side the moon is closest to and lowering tide on the other side. 

The water table under the ground also rises during Apogee and lowers during Perigee. This has big effect on farmers, but not indoor farmers such as the vertical FMCG farms, they create their own seasons and harvest time does not depend on the lunar cycle such as with outdoor growers.

Fully outdoor growers that are dependant on the calendar and the lunar cycle will be more effected by the moon position and find that come harvest time if you checking the trichomes they'll seem a little bigger and perkier in the early mornings, but it has nothing to do with the darkness, it has to do with the time of the year and the position of the moon.

The extended dark period before harvest comes from the notion that you go from 18/6 as veg to 12/12 for flower. so people thought "aaah extending the dark time makes the plant push resin", knowing the plant can't grow in complete darkness the whole flower cycle people somehow concluded that leaving the plant in complete darkness right before harvest will cause it to just throw out resin. In hindsight, it causes more stress than anything, probably just encouraging mold to grow cause the plant it still attached to the roots, even if you don't want it to the plant is still making chemical exchanges, growing and "doing stuff" and at no time in a plants life does it grow in complete darkness. 

This comes back to - a healthy plant makes the best end product - not some special life hack mechanical treatment thing. the goal is purely to try and get the plant as healthy and close to natural as possible and you'll be happy.