Deficiency or lock out??

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

This plant is only a few weeks old, shouldn't be lock out. What do you guys think? Growing in Freedom Farms premium classic and using hortimix salt based nutes on her second week of feed, but she's growing quite fast! I transplanted her, about 2 weeks later I saw yellowing and a few spots on the bigger fan leaves and now it's showing a little on some of the new leaves and the stress is kicking in!! 

[Prom]

Evenly yellowing from the tips can have two causes.. over watering or N deficiency.  If the leaves feel "light", N.. if they feel heavy.. to much water. 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Thanks. Not overwatered. What about Calcium deficiency? The brown spots amongst the yellowing looks more like she needs C than N, the rest of the plant is dark green. Any thoughts? 

[Prom]

The brown spot looks more like fungi damage.. but also doesn't look to tragic. 

From the pics, I would give some more N... if you think that you are low on calcium.. give some Calmag ^^ that way you add more Ca and N ^^ should solve your yellowing issue 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Oh shib man, fungi damage? Would it be a fungi that attacts the leaves directly or at the roots?? Is there a way to rectify this or prevent future fungi damage? 

Anyway, ladies all got fed and, because it's near end of the week I bumped her nutes up to the following weeks ratios one feed earlier so hopefully that will feed her Ca/N demand, if that was it.

[Prom]

it is moist out there now.. at the moment there are several fungi on your plant.. the issue only comes when they over board. You get those spots in general towards the end. Just get her back to healthy growing and the rest, the plant will sort out. 

If you get those spots in healthy green areas.. you have to watch a bit closer.. right now.. I wouldn't run in circles and throw my arms in the air  just have an eye on your other leaves, if they stay nice and green.. your feeding change did the trick. And I would remove that leaf... 

If not flowering or short before.. perhaps a last spray with copper soap? Prevention is always better... and while not flowering, you can unpack some artillery ^^ 

 

Root rot is very easy to detect.. lift the plant out of the pot and take a smell from closer.. you get those brown spots often when over watering. The problem with fungi is that, some like it colder, some like it hotter.. but in general, none likes it dry  so as long as you have a humid environment, you create room for fungi. Having your air intake going through a HEPA filter, would help too.

 

I think your nute change will sort the issue.. i still think is N deficiency

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

I really hope it was just the nutes, will keep an eye on her. Some other leaves have started reacting that way too, the plant is only 6 weeks old from seed pop and on 3rd week of feed going into 4th week now so all the leaves are new still. 

Taking her out of the pot will be difficult, because she's in a material pot and they don't take out as easy as a plastic pot and the plant was also only transplanted maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago.

My RH in the tent ranges between 45 and 55%

Will remove those leaves and put copper soap on my shopping list, will be ordering some stuff from this hydroshop everyone say is operating right now! Otherwise, in my crop protection box there is BioNeem and BioAmpelo. I have done two treatments with the Neem and usually just 3 or 4 Ampelo treatments during early flower. 

[Prom]

Humidity is rather on the good side.. so see that spot as the plant gave up on the leaf and "what ever" made a spot  

Neem... what do I think of Neem.. the friendliest is waste of money. Or.. before I would use Neem, I would try to lick it off the leaves myself 

 

When ever you see something on leaves and don't know what it could be, google "cannabis leaves deficiencies" and go Images.. you are never the first having that type of problem

 

Quick add.. no need to take a plant out of the fabric pot.. you can just smell directly. Root rot you smell rather easy and as long as you do not let your pots stand in liquid for to long, root rot shouldn't become a issue in fabric pots. Put 3 bricks below, good air flow below your pot will prevent it.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Prom
short add

[1000Hills Nursery]

@Naughty.Psychonaut 

6weeks from seed are almost considered mature plants. Most plants would have shot some preflowers by now. Don't stress too hard it's nothing serious.

Hortimix has enough of all the essentials in it so it's not a deficiency if used correctly.

It looks like a PH issue. Probably too acidic or something in root zone. Flush it with plain water at the correct ph for soil. Let it dry out and monitor overall health.

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Thanks!

Wooooah, 6 weeks from seed and pushing flowers already??? Then my problem might be way bigger than anticipated. I have never grown a plant that wanted to flower after 6 weeks. This is her now. Far from being ready to flower.

Even though she is 6 weeks from seed pop she's only getting her 3rd week of feed. Would give a minimum of 5 more weeks before flip. I usually just fill up the tent space before I flip and that always requires another week or so...

I use hortimix nutes as per schedule, but I understand that every plant will have different demands.

I wish I had a soil ph probe, but I have the blue labs ph probe for water and been giving at a range between 5.6 and 6.0. Germinated in distilled water. Would testing the runoff from a flush indicate the soil ph or no?

If it's a deficiency and I flush her, the yellowing will just get worse? 

I have already fed her last night and will keep an eye on how she reacts...

Back to the whole six weeks from seed and pushing flowers already, I must be understanding the plant wrong or doing something major to hinder the growth of all my plants, becsuse I really have never experienced such a thing. Unless it's an auto or I just wana harvest 20g or something? Like I said I'll give my ladies at the very least another 5/6 weeks of veg before flipping. They would then be on their 8/9th week of feed and perfectly on schedule for flip and would also have filled my tent by then, but they would be 10/11 weeks from seed pop. After a week of flip will be the first signs of preflowers, so that's around week 12 after seed pop before pushing flowers...? She's not even in her final pot yet. Probably gona transplant 2 weeks before flip so she can still do some serious stretching, but I know once they flower you don't repot. So if she was pushing flowers now already I would really be upset more than anything else.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

@Prom

I'll post better photos a bit later, hopefully it will better explain why I don't think the plant is just giving up on the leaf. I've only jusy cut away the first set of true leaves that was getting in the way, but even they where still fine. 

Sucks to hear your take on neem. I've had it work for me. With loadshedding I caught pm on a cutting that was from a mother that had pm issues, neemd her up and kept treating her till before flower and no probs. Harvested a lovely full plant, which otherwise would probably not have been possible. I wouldn't use it to treat infestations, it's a preventative, but it sais so right on the product. Also, my ladies seem to love it, they always look extra thick and dark green when reacting to a treatment, so I read on the bottle it acts as a mild foliar feed. Will keep pyrol around once I get some again, for curbing infestation a little more.  

Thanks for the google mention hahah you know, it's funny, I found this site when googling such things. I've google, and I've googled some more, but taking guesses looking at pics and gathering unreliable information and going on hunches doesn't really cut it for me as "research". I could upload my opinions as fact and someone out there will believe it like it's written in stone. I'd rather interactively try to get to the point by reasoning it out and asking as many questions as possible as we all know nothing concerning growing cannabis happens without there being a variable. There's always 100 things to look at before making a move. It's like the "measure twice, cut once" saying, but on a much grander scale. 

Will raise the pots off the ground and give them a good sniff.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Naughty.Psychonaut

[Prom]

mhhh can you turn your grow light off and use the flash.. or bring a white light in to make the picture. I need to see the "green".   

And still wouldn't run in circles ^^ how many grows you did so far?

[1000Hills Nursery]

@Naughty.Psychonaut 

Preflowers? You never heard or seen them? It's how we sex plants without throwing them into flower room. Males sometimes spit preflowers after 3 weeks. This has zero to do with autos.

Back to your plants.

1stly they really dark green. They been fed more nutes then they need. They way smaller than what they should be. If that freedom medium you using is soil and you feeding between 5,6 - 6 then my friend you not using Google properly.  If its coco then you okay. Bluelabs is perfect for checking the ph of runoff but you should know this. My advice is based on experience and not research. Use it or don't use it, doesn't really matter.

You seem to have things covered .

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Damn man, I wish I had things covered, but being the experienced grower you are you should be aware that the guy who walks around thinking he already knows everything will never learn anything new. I am trying to not be that guy. So here I have two people, one saying I must bump up the feed, other guy sais I fed too much.... honestly, just "taking advice" would be wrong of me.... 

I mean on your journey to becoming the experienced grower that you are did you always just take the first advice given to you?

Firstly, I am not arguing or challenging you, this is called trying to learn things. If you where the teacher I'd be the kid putting his hand up. Just because I have questions doesn't mean I'm bashing your level of experience...

With that being said, don't you have to change up the light cycle for a preflower? I've heard of them, honestly never dealt with them because have never grown regs. So why would I have to check the sex? This is only my 3rd indoor grow ( @Promanswer to your question aswell) and played it safe by growing out some fems. Each time. Even with outdoor grows have never dealt with preflowers, only early flowers, because once they start flowering that's it, they flower. Unless they reveg? If I am wrong, inform me, this is what this site is for. 

I like that your advice is based on experience, I respect that the same way you have to respect the fact that no one has to take your advise just because it's your advise. You're wasting your time getting upset just because I wana get to the point of my problem.

Here's pics with natural light, I wouldn't call that dark green.

On the ph topic, I wanted to know if testing the runoff from that pot after a flush would indicate the soil ph? As I don't have a soil probe.... That is soil, ff premium classic, have been testing pH ,yes. After nutes gets added to the water I'm left with ph between 5.6 and 6. Should I change that? Because I'm growing in soil? Will get myself a soil probe asap.

[Prom]

What light do you use and light cycle?

How often do you water your plants? (bottom feed or top feed?)

We all learn.. there is nobody knowing all  

Ph range for soil is 6-7 ... where a liquid with 6 is already 10 times more acidic compared to a 7. That is the theory.. and the Ph window you play with.

After that the battle ground opens and heads clash  In general you enter "opinion" ground. Some like that, some like that and because nothing is recorded or each bean differs in genetics.. hard to say which is better.

My personal opinion on fertilizers and Ph... if you use a biological fertilizer and rain water in organic soil, the micro life should keep all in balance.. if you damage that micro life, your Ph will swing out of range. If you use a chemical fertilizer or tap water, i suggest to bring your feeding liquid in the needed range of 6-7, before you feed your plants. Others might suggest otherwise.. best is to test yourself and see what you prefer as a result.

What brings to the point.. soil Ph is what you keep happy. I don't think with those pics, that you have any nute issue.. I thought all your leaves start to yellow ^^ can't feel them, but they still look "leathery" and "heavy" to me. So back to the second question of this post ^^  

[1000Hills Nursery]

Alternating between 5,6 - 6 is the incorrect ph for soil. You have nutrient lockout. Run some water set at 6.5 thru the plant. Collect 1st runoff. Let any sediment settle. Pop your bluelab in and check ph.. 

The whole preflowers thing is not for you and unrelated to your issue so I would retract that from this conversation.

On a broader note. When you ask for advice, you need to filter all that's given to you. No one here knows everything. Every grow brings new knowledge. 

Happy growing

 

[Bakstein420]

I agree with @Mambawana, flush with 6.5 and see how she responds.

[Prom]

Primary nutrition only gets blocked from absorption when your Ph goes 5.5 and under in soil.. not sure he reached that with the numbers he provided... so get a soil Ph meter and see where you stand, rest is guessing.. I hate guessing 

And just keep in mind.. your plants need also some dry time at the roots. After the hot summer, people like to over water.. plants need a lot less water now.

 

Forgot half ^^

You have more of those brown spots.. what can also point to a Calcium deficiency. 

But still.. what light, how often do you feed?

Edited April 19, 2020 by Prom
the usual ^^

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

 

@Prom I am on a 18 on 6 off schedule, under an apollo 8 LED. About 240 true watts. This light will soon be used only for veg as I am in the process of getting a flower room ready with a QB. I top feed manually when the moisture is around 20-30% on the moisture probe, or I feel if the pot feels light when I lift it, usually evey 3rd day. With a flush every 3rd time I water. 

I will get my ph between 6 and 7, got some ph up here. Thanks man! Appreciate that info on the ph. I think the best would be a soil probe, so that's moving to top of the shopping list. 

I will do what @Mambawana suggested and flush her with 6.5ph water and test the run off. Thanks man!

[Prom]

I asked for the light, if you raised it, the bottom leaves might not get enough anymore and the plant just shuts some down... they also die by age, done their shift, but shouldn't happen after 6 weeks.

As long as a plant is growing fast, she is in no lock down.. that they have, when they stop growing. So she is still growing normal, but has some issues with spots and yellow.. the yellow doesn't fit to the Calcium issue.. so welcome to hemp growing  I am rather reluctant to agree with the 6.5 watering.. first you need to test your soils Ph. The result will tell you if you flush or add some CalMag 

[1000Hills Nursery]

@Naughty.Psychonaut    Don't flush. You doing fault finding. Just enough water to check ph of the very 1st runoff. It would be equally important to also check the ec of the runoff. These values compared to what you inputting tells you the issue.  Ph of soil to acidic or your plant is hungry.

Knowing that you were feeding below a Ph of 6, I would actually do the test using water at a Ph of 7. That would aid with trying to raise the soil ph.

@Bospatrollie2 I'm a soiless man and you are soil man. Please clarify soil ph ranges etc and maybe have a look at this fellow growers issue and give us your opinion. 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

@Prom will check light specs and measure light distance tonight, just for in case. Should be about 30cm away. 

For now while I still don't have a soil ph probe, I will do as @Mambawana suggested. Good thing I read that part about not flushing, just in time, only for a bit of run off to get an idea of what's going on in the soil. Got my water at 7ph, will post everything tonight, only get home at 6.

Got the bluelabs ppm pen too, wil get the ppm of the run off, think it shows the ec too.

I am really appreciating all the help guys, thanks!

[1000Hills Nursery]

@Naughty.Psychonaut 

Nice you got both pens.

Carryout calibration of ph meter. Bluelabs go out of calibration very easily. I use drops for setting ph of my reservoir for feeding and my bluelab pen to check runoff when need be.

Record your input ec and ph...

And then your runoff ec and ph..

Let's see what those values tell us.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Both pens calibrated, did all I needed to do, got the following results, 

 

The water I gave to the plant, 7.0 on the dot -

The run off -

Not sure what the "0r" means on the ppm pen in the run off. I think it's the sediment and I only have that bit of run off so it's not deep enough to not get the pen near the sediment. There's nothing in the instruction booklet on it, trying to find something on google, maybe someone here knows what it means?

[1000Hills Nursery]

@Naughty.Psychonaut 

Strange ph result seeing as you been feeding between 5,6 - 6 and now you put in 7. The runoff should be lower then 7.

Not sure why the ec pen had an error. I use my pen set to the 500ppm scale and I put it in really dirty runoff all the time.

Next watering try the 500 scale on ec pen (the values will be ppm) and ph to the optimum soil ph which I'm sure is somewhat debatable but definitely not low as 5,6 - 6. That's the ph for hydroponics. I'm in coco and I fluctuate between 5.8 - 6. You should be staying in the 6.3 - 6.8 zone.

So unfortunately nothing has come from that test. Now you just got to let her dry out before the next move. I would monitor the plants till then. Check that the new growth is normal. Pay attention to all the oldest leaves to see if more leaves are been affected. Check soil ph chart and see what nutes are not available at a high ph(as per test). Match those deficiencies (caused by lockout) with what your leaves are doing.