Spaidan

You see the spacing is tight with the auto which is grown outdoor with the sun. Where your indoor plants have large internodal spacing. This gives me reason to believe its a light issue. You mentioned you using a 8 year old blurple light. I would recommend getting a new light such as a LED quantum board. I have a 120w quantum board from Green Houston, next to my old 100w Mars Hydro 48 reflector in one tent. (70cm x 70cm) and they work great together. When looking for a quantum board always look for ones with Samsung diodes. 

Ill provide the link to the one I purchased. There are different sizes and versions. But any quantum board that uses Samsung diodes such as LM301H diodes will be excellent.

https://www.greenhouston.co.za/products/quantum-board-led-125w

Depending on the size of your tent you might have to go larger or buy multiple. However if you just get one Quantum board, you can combine it with your old light.

Hey man. Large spaces are either formed from not enough light and sometimes its just a trait of the strain. Maybe try defoliate more to expose bud sites. Sometimes the problem is not the amount of light, but instead the light coverage. There could be other reasons, however this is all I know of. On the breeder packs it will let you know if the strain stretches during flowering and sometimes they will mention the common internodal spacing. Different strains have different characteristics during flower and different phenotypes of the same strain can have different plant structure. If you constantly have the same issue, it could be a different reason.

Good luck man

There is no need for molasses, since it main purpose is to feed the microbes in your soil. However since you are using salt based nutrients you have basically killed all your microbes off so I would just continue with your nutrients then do a heavy flush last week or two. You don't want to be smoking bud with synthetic fertilizer still present.

Happy growing

5 hours ago, DesignatedDave said:

 - I've never been a fan of top dressing for this reason, unless you top dressing with a fertilizer that can be broken down by water and leech into the soil (dry amendment fertilizer). When it comes to things like Kelp meal, bone meal and crushed Malted barley, they take time for the microbes to break them down. So I would add them to the soil in the beginning when I was mixing the soil for the plant. I find the trick to organics is to work 2 weeks ahead of where your plant are. So if I'm going to flip to flower in two weeks time, I already start with the organic material needed for Phosphorous and Potassium to give it 2 weeks to at least start breaking down. However, keep in mind, just because the raw material exist in the soil, doesn't mean the plant will use it or it will affect the plant. An example of this is the kelp and bone meal, you can add it to the soil in the beginning and let the microbes do their thing, When you flip to flower, those broken down nutrients will then be instantly available to the plant when it wants it. Crushed Barley needs to be worked into the soil in the beginning, when it gets wet it will build out a mycelium network throughout your soil and feed your microbes.

 - I answered your Environoc question in the other thread. It won't hard the plant if you do it throughout flower, it's just not needed as it's a waste.

 - I have never found a use for a compost tea, I prefer to use VermiPure Tea (https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/umoja-organics-vermipure-worm-tea/) and Environoc 401 instead for the microbe loading. Then normal nutrients for the other NPK stuff.

 

If you looking to do organics on the cheap, try out the Bud Juice nutrient range, I'm busy using it at the moment on a grow and its seems really good for something you only give once a week.

 

 

 

I have used Bio-Bizz Bloom in previous grows  and I have Dirty hands inc Bio-Phos. This time around I wanted to try the topdressing, but now since you have advised against it, do you think Ill be better off going back to the liquid nutrients feedings for flower? I use a 30litre pot. I fill the bottom half with Orgasoilux and the top half with Freedom Farms soil. I veg for 2 months and all I add is microbes. The plant is always healthy. Do you believe I will require flower nutrients to get me through to harvest? Do you think all my nutrients in the living soil would be depleted?

I'm just concerned my soil wont have enough P and K for flowering, especially if I don't top dress. In your experience is Biobizz the best liquid flower nutrient, and if you don't mind sharing, how often do you apply it? Some people use it every watering where others use it once a week. From my understanding Bio Bizz bloom is just molasses and kelp? Wouldn't compost teas and molasses feedings have the same effect?

Thanks for your help! The image below is my previous grow during veg and flower. One plant trained in a 40litre pot using freedom farms and Orgasoilux. I have a small mars hydro tent with a 120w QB from Green Houston and a mars hydro 48 reflector (blurple old tech) tents width and length is 70cm x 70cm.

During flower for this grow I used Bio-Phos by Dirty hands inc. I was not sure if I provided enough nutrients through the flowering phase. Roughly flowered 8 weeks. I couldn't tell if this was its natural fade or if I could have pumped up the nutes do get denser and bigger buds

On 8/23/2020 at 5:02 PM, PsyCLown said:

@SoloKush  have used EM Pro Soil and Environoc (made by Biodyne) - same concept, they're a microbe inoculant to help get the microbes going in your medium.

 

If you were to make a tea like @SkunkPharm then a little really does go a long way as they will multiply heavily during the tea brewing process as they have everything they need - food source, oxygen and heat. Alternatively just add it to your feed or do a watering with it.

Coco and perlite isn't the best medium to use as there isn't much in terms of a food source for the microbes, also people say using all the good nutes and PH up / down kills the microbes. If you have it, use it!

Take note that it does drop the PH, so add the Biodyne before you PH your feed.

So from your experience I can mix Environoc 401 with my molasses before feeding the plant? Also I have read on a lot of websites that you should stop applying Environoc 2 weeks into flower??? I don't see how the soil and plant wont benefit from the product during its flowering phase. Please let me know if you recommend I use Environoc throughout flowering phase and if I can mix it with molasses before the feeding. Online they also say you shouldn't brew Environoc because it is already a complex formula..so much info online you dont know who to trust'.

5 hours ago, Spaidan said:

I'm curious to why so many people top dress with kelp and all these amendments if it takes 4 months to break down?? So you saying none of my top dressing besides the worm castings will benefit the plant at all since it only becomes available after 4 months?

I was looking at the nutrients feeding guide you posted above. At the bottom of the programme it says topdressing onset of flower. I see Jamie included kelp meal as one of the amendments? If it takes so long to become available to the plant why would he include it in the mix? So to my understanding he top-dresses once in the beginning of flower along with his liquid nutrient feed throughout flower?

I was thinking maybe leave out the bone meal and use his Bio-Phos (liquid-Phos) to add phosphorus needed through flower. And then then potassium can be provided by the kelp meal I top-dress in the beginning. Along with the worm castings. Thank you for your help and input. Whenever you have time I would like your input on a few things I am still unsure of.

- When it comes to feeding with microbes (Environoc 401) do you suggest using it through flower or not? Some websites I have come across suggest you stop using Environoc 2 weeks into flower. But when I look at Jamie's nutrient schedule that you provided, he gives the plants microbes throughout flower until about week 6 if I am not mistaken. I personally don't see why it would be a bad idea to continue adding microbes to the soil during its flowering stage?

-Another question...Aerated Compost teas are essentially brewing microbes to give to your plant. However if I am using Environoc to add microbes is the compost teas necessary or a waste of time? 

Sorry for all the questions. I have dialled down my veg stage perfectly however I am still indecisive on a few things during flower.

On 2/21/2023 at 3:02 PM, Prom said:

There is hardy anything to add... the generic pH solution you used was most likely chemical... what sets all you used to chemical and kills your micro organisms. With FF stick to biological fertilizer parts only and skip any pH tests. Or go Coco/Hydro and stick to salts and chemicals only and use generic pH to get it in the right region. BioBizz still costs a bit and one drop of chemical pH down will render the biological advantage obsolete. 

To get some flora back, Biodyne Environoc 401.. micro organisms in liquid form.. get a small bottle and add accordingly. Keep chemicals out of soil.. ruins most of the positive effects to grow in soil. If you use fertilizers killing living things.. stick to coco, rock wool or DWC.

Quick question regarding Environoc 401 microbes. Can I mix the microbes with molasses inside the same container before applying to my plant? And can I apply Environoc through flower? some websites say you must stop use when you are 2 weeks into flower? I don't see how added microbes to the soil should be stopped during the flowering phase?

2 hours ago, SkunkPharm said:

It should work but I don’t know how effective it really is. The breakdown of kelp and bone meal takes a long time and would probably only be available to plants after they flowered. If you have cash try using greenhouse bio feeds at the beginning of your flowering cycle and see how it affects your grow. It is a mineral feed but I have gotten lazy. It really works. I see you get 50gram sachet these days. 

I'm curious to why so many people top dress with kelp and all these amendments if it takes 4 months to break down?? So you saying none of my top dressing besides the worm castings will benefit the plant at all since it only becomes available after 4 months?

7 hours ago, SkunkPharm said:

If I veg that long I normally transplant the plants from a smaller to a bigger bag, say 10l to 30l bag then there is nice fresh soil for the plant

I use a trellis and train my plant, so I like to keep it in the same pot. I cannot transplant, that's why I do the entire grow in the 30l fabric pot from the start. I usually just use Bio-Phos by dirty hands inc when it comes to flower. It usually works out fine, however I am trying out topdressing this time so I wasn't sure if 2 topdressings would be necessary. I was hoping one topdressing in the beginning of flower with compost tea feedings every 2 weeks will carry it through to harvest. My top-dress for flower is the following:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kelp flakes - 60ml per 30l

Bone meal - 60ml per 30l

Crushed Malted barley - 60ml per 30l

Worm castings - 1 Cup per 30l

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was either going to do one topdressing in the beginning of flower with the above measurements or alternatively split the topdressing into 2, so one top-dress on week 1 of flower with half those measurements, then another final topdressing during week 4 of flower with the other half. Then compost tea feedings every 2 weeks and molasses and dechlorinated water every other week.

On 2/6/2024 at 8:47 AM, DesignatedDave said:

So it can be used throughout the grow, but also depends on how long you vegging your plant for.

However, Dirty Hands do have a nutrient feeding schedule for Orgasoilux soil if you want to add nutrients, which I have attached for you.
The feeding works out really cheap as you don't use very much of the nutrients at all. You buy these nutrients here -  https://jamiesgardenshop.co.za/product-category/organic-garden-products/organic-fertilisers/liquid-organic-fertilizers/

I've grown using their nutrients before and have had great results.

 

Organic Liquid Feeding Program (3).pdf 89.33 kB · 4 downloads

Hello

I usually veg out plants for two months in a 30l fabric pot before I flip. Is one topdressing enough at the start of flower with compost teas every 2 weeks? Or would you suggest I topdress in week 1 of flower and then another final topdressing at week 4? 

Looking good. Where do you purchase your seeds? I have used Trophy Seeds in the past, but looking for another reliable seed bank.

I'm also curious. I was considering buying an inverter, however they do get very pricey. Load shedding is a constant battle.

Hello growers

I would love to have an opinion on this topic. Let me update you on what I have been working with. I have a one plant indoor grow inside a 80cm x 80cm grow tent. I use a 40l fabric pot with both Orgasoilux and Freedom farms soil (green bag). The bottom half I use Orgasoilux(20l) and the top half I use Freedom farms soil(20l). Throughout veg all I give the plant is Biodyne Environoc 401 (microbes), Molasses and water. This results in an extremely healthy plant.

Once I flip to flower I start using organic bottled nutrients. In the past I have used Biobizz Bio-bloom, and more recently I have used Dirty hands inc - Bio-Phos (Jamie's brand). I give 3ml Bio-Phos once a week early flower and up it to 5ml every week mid to late flower. Plus a molasses feeding every 2 weeks and stopped using Biodyne microbes 1 week into flower.

I was thinking about completely ditching bottled nutrients and going the topdressing route for flower. I was thinking of maybe topdressing a week before the flip with Jamie's elemental blend. I am just worried if it will provide enough for the plants through to harvest. I was also thinking of maybe using my own topdressing blend of Dry kelp, Gypsum, Malted Barley and Worm Castings. Would love an opinion on switching to topdressing for flower and if the elemental blend should be more than enough to take me to harvest. If you think I should just stick to bottled nutrients for flower let me know. I am going to include photo's of my 2 previous grows using the method I have stated above. Just trying to get the best quality flower possible :)

Some thoughts of mine...…

Topdressing vs Liquid Nutrients?

Biobizz Bio-Bloom vs Dirty Hands Inc Bio-Phos?

One topdressing enough 1 week before flip?

Elemental Blend or my own flowering mix?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Grow:

Medium: Top Half Freedom Farms soil (20l) + bottom half Orgasoilux(20l)

Additives and Amendments: Molasses + Biodyne Environoc 401 Microbes + Dirty Hands Inc - Bio-Phos + Mycoroot (seedling)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Seedling)

- Solo Cup + Freedom Farms soil + Mycoroot

-Transplant in week 2 of veg to 40l

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Veg Stage)

- initial inoculant 2ml Environoc Microbes

-1ml per litre  Environoc every 2 weeks

-5ml per litre Molasses every 2 weeks

-Stop Environoc 1 week into flower

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Flower Stage)

-3ml Bio-Phos every week (early flower)

-5ml Bio-Phos every week (late flower)

-5ml Molasses every 2 weeks

-Stop Bio-Phos 2 weeks before harvest

-Feed molasses until harvest

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pictures below include TH seeds - Orangesicle + Trainwreck (darker leaves) and a photo of Orangesicle during veg

On 10/28/2023 at 7:39 AM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

Been smoke testing them all this past week, verging on 3weeks cure now things are starting to speak up. Clear winner #4. Extremely resinous, and I don't mean trichome count. Resin is something inside the trichome. Trichomes themself don't make you high. Looking at one singular mature trichome the stalk and outer layer of resin head is basically a mix of pure celluloce and silica. The resin inside the resin head contains the tetrahydrocanabinol in all different forms and qualities. All 5 these SSC cuts had about the same trichome production/count, yet only #4 fucked my scissors to the point where I had to clean between every second or third bud or else the scissor will get stuck. 

You can draw your own conclusions with that information, clearly a lot more can and should be said, but for now here's the report. 

1st Rundown -

10 to 12 weeks flower, had different expressions across 5 phenos, 1st plant to finish on week 10 but the rest clearly had to go longer, 2 plants harvested a week later and another 2 plants harvested on week 12. 

5 plants in 1 year mature living soil built with my own worm castings and a shit ton of ongoing KNF treatments (FPJ, FPE, FFJ, FFE, LABS, SST, JMS and more) unfortunately not no till as each plant got their own 30L pot, so I had to disturb when loading pots. 5 different phenos warrent individual pots to avoid root zone competition and get a fuller expression of charactaristics. If I do a monocrop I will run a bed.

Alternating between worm piss from my worm tower and clean water. One single topdress last week of veg. Jamies Elemental blend + Bat guano + Micronized Calcium.

Total weight = 365g

GPW = 1.2

#1 - 69g Gelato/Cookies terps. For the bulk suppliers this would be your pick on bag appeal alone. 

#2 - 77g Fruity/Floral terps with a hidden Gelato sweetness, but the least cookies leaning pheno of the bunch. 

#3 - 65g Straight Cookie sweet terps, most compact/smallest out of the bunch, really nice structure, rock hard dense buds. 

#4 - The keeper. 74g Chemical/Gas terps hit you right in the face, with a lingering cookie sweetness, heavy flavour covers the whole inside of your mouth, can't smoke enough of her. I prefer green weed over purple too, may be a placebo by now, but purple is a turn off. This bud sticky as fuuuug. 

#5 - 80g biggest yielder. Straight up and down Cookie terps all the way. 

Additional info - Have not processed any of the buds cause they're all good enough to smoke just the way they are. Trim got stuck in the bag, wouldn't fall out even when I shake the bag upside down open. got it on video for those who wana see. Took 40g of the trim to the press, got 4.5g 1st press and 3.6g on the second press. Total of 8.1g from 40g trim gives me a fat 20% return on the trim alone on par with some of the best bud. Pressed Peanut Butter Breath buds, got a 25% return so I know it goes higher, but 25% is about maxing it out for now, I've heard about 30% returns, just haven't worked with it before. All videos of the trim/press/rosin and what what will be thrown up on my instagram page. ethnobotany.winelands 

Looks awesome. 

Can I get your advice on my next grow please. 

Im growing indoors with a 30l pot. The bottom half I use orgasoilux and the top half I use freedom farms soil(green bag). I veg for 2 months and I only use biodyne microbes and molassas through to flower. Girls are always happy. Then once I hit flower I either used diry hamds biophos or biobloom nutes. This run I was thinking of ditching the bottled organic nutes and topdressing 1 week before the flip. Will one top dress of elemental blend be enough to carry me throigh to harvest with molassas feedings and water only?. Or should I stick with liquid organic bottled nutes(biobizz bloom). Your help would much appreciated. I wouls include a photo of my last grow which I used diry hands bio phos during flower. Alternatvely if I go the topdress method for flower should I be safe and go for elemental blend from jamie or use my own mix for dlowe. I was thinking a mix of Dried kelp, malted barley, gypsum and worm castings. Since elemenatal mix has more amendments should I rather lean towards that. 

Thanks again

TH seeds - Orangesicle

Was just abit confused because I've never seen pistils on my plants during veg and only a week after I slip to 12/12 cycle

2 minutes ago, CreX said:

also, the pic isnt entirely clear...

i cant tell 100% if you are even looking at the right thing.  a lot of new growers often confuse stipule for Pistols. check the image below.

Definetely looking at pistils and not stipule, I have a few grows under my belt but still learning. Loadshedding could of definetey caused this however I'm still going to keep it in veg, thanks man

Awesome thanks for the reply, yes I do have loadshedding but very rarely. Thanks for your knowledge

Good morning growers. 

Currently have two plants vegging in my indoor setup and I noticed this morning my one plants is start to show pistils?? The light cycle has has been on 18/6 since seedling and hasn't changed since. Was wondering why one of the plants is showing pistils while it's under veg? I thought pistils only come once u flip to flower under 12/12 cycle. Not very happy because I wanted to still veg out the plants for longer and recently just topped them. If anyone can give an explanation that would be great. Plants have been happy the entire time with no deficiances, problems or stress. I would say it's been a perfect grow so far. And they are photo periods not autoflowers. Is it possible for the plant to shoot pistils and show its sex while still in veg?? Or is it guaranteed flipped. Thanks guys would appreciate your knowledge on this topic

33 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Ha, that's an auto?
Pretty sure I have some seeds of this, may decide to pop one or two sometime soon.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 Pro using Tapatalk
 

Indeed its an autoflower. Temps were very low during flowering which caused some beautiful colour on the bud, however the bud didn't smell or taste so great need to work on my dry and cure still. But with practice I'm sure I will eventually get it right. 

52 minutes ago, Dookie69 said:

What is the ambient temp and humidity outside the tent? Do you exhaust back into the same space as the tent or to the outside?

If it’s an office, are there big changes between day and night room temperature and humidity?

Thing is if your temp, humidity and “freshness” of the intake air are not right, you will struggle to lower / raise accordingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the problem I face, all the air gets exhausted back into the same room. The office hardly has any ventilation at the moment. It does have an aircon on the wall which I do intend on fixing. The aircon will take some of the hot air out and make it cooler in the room however I cannot run the aircon all day due to electrical bill. 

However with the setup how it is I've achieved some decent results. It's just because of the new QB 120w it's added some extra heat. Office temp is basically the same as inside the tent. I would love to take ducting and exhaust the air out but due to certain circumstances I cannot do that at the moment. 

I'll add some pics of older harvests of mine achieved with my current setup. 

Sorry for the shit blurple Light, was a bad purchase as a beginner. 

Brooklyn Sunrise by dutch passion

5 minutes ago, Prom said:

Different story  but still just one fan for in and out?

Yes I've been growing with one oscillating fan outside my tent pushing air into the intake vents forcing air out of the hole at the top of my tent. It's been working great until I've recently added the new quantum board. My average Temps use to be around 24-25 with a relative humidity of 50 percent which isn't bad conditions. But now the past couple of days it's been sitting at 29 degrees with 40 humidity. And this is with the QB board dimmed down to 40 percent. If I had to blast the QB board at full intensity my temps will go just over 30. When I turn the extractor on it coolsthe tent down only by 1 or 2 degrees. Keep in my mind this is a small office grow.

2 hours ago, Prom said:

 those are some sexy inliners . My heart skipped a beat when i saw the price.  But thanks for the link, i like options 

 

Yes, i agree 100%, for 2 feet by 2 feet, two bathroom fans would do  

 

 

It's 70cm x 70cm x 1.6m

26 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

What size and type of exhaust fan were you running? 

Awesome thanks for the help dude, much appreciated