MrE

80cm tent. Flower Day 46: OG Mandarin Cookies, Frozen Fuel PH5, Ginger Tea.

Looking like a Frankenstein situation over here. I really trained them to death, then had to defol like crazy, such a shame. Note taken! Hopefully get a few good nugs out of it if I'm lucky. Heck, maybe they'll improve a bit by harvest time.

Found a small spot of bud rot in the Crazy Haze earlier, smdh, I feel like I have to apologise to the herb gods for multiple counts of aggravated HST/ Training with intent to harm.

Just have to stay vigilant. Will leave fans on high, Eskom willing.

80cm tent. Flower Day 36.

EMS-240 - @120W | 60cm tent. Crazy Haze: Flower Day 40. Jogging to the finish line.

EMS-240 - @200W | 80cm tent. Flower Day 35: OG Mandarin Cookies, Frozen Fuel PH5, Ginger Tea, Mandarin Sunset. Photo from yesterday, final defol 3 days before that. Remains to be seen whether my overtraining, which resulted in nodes stacking too closely (forcing aggressive late flower defol), has killed decent bud development.

2 hours ago, Prom said:

Had no idea is your shop ^^ or I would have written you directly and not posted something.

 

My opinion has nothing to do with any commandment ^^ they are just my opinions. As said, I enjoy very much to look what you grow.. I just do it different. Nothing wrong how ever you grow as long as the person doing the growing is happy with it. Each has their own style, mine is purely based of efficiency, that is a bit my nature. I was in European high management long time ago, retired myself when i was 31.

But lets go back to your shop... i understand when you say this is your product, this is what you have... but.. damn.. those stupid "but's".. business wise you placed yourself beside the market.. a little bit. If you go into a local grow shop.. how many tents are fitting your lights spot on? I personally think you should offer what the market needs and not go your own way. Yes, you can do that.. is just way harder that way. I don't know how much traffic your site has in comparison to your sales. If you are happy.. simply ignore my rambling. But if you are not that happy with your business performance, it might be that your product is just not very well placed.

 

Growing wise you do splendidly  never questioned that even once. I opened the thread as the lights simply confused me. The older you get, the easier you get confused ^^ 

You're right mate! Appreciate ya. I aim to get to a place where I can have loads of options on offer, just like you suggested!

21 minutes ago, Prom said:

OK, lets come from the customer side.. I came to your site as I was looking for a light for a friend. Depending on your numbers i excluded you rather fast. He needed a 1.2x1.2 area lit for flower. I had a closer look, as i really like bar configurations. Light spread.. the advantage you put out.. isn't really there when i use your lamps. I can't use 3 of em on a 1.2x1.2.. must be 4. And that means i buy way to much material. At the end we got a local made used monstrosity with QBs on and made 2 new lamps out of it, owner of the monster bought 2 new Mars bar setups for his 2.4x1.2. 

So from a buyers perspective, which lamp you choose:

The one for a 0.6x0.6 area using 120w

or the lamp using 240w with the note that you can dim it down?

Most people have rather dry wallets these days. As a 1.2x0.6 area uses 240w.. what foot print you have on that area with one of your 240w lamps?  You tell people that is it perfect to buy 2 of yours. Double cost.. not sure that is a great sales argument. As said.. i skipped site to look further, no idea was you behind. I like what you grow ^^ we just have different opinions on speed. 

Fair play mate, then my light doesn't suit a 1.2x1.2m tent as a primary use-case scenario for him. And I'm stoked he got himself sorted!

I can't do anything about that at the moment. This is my product, this is what it can do, and I'll go to the ends of the earth to keep customers satisfied and growing happily, that's all that is in my control right now. And I will continue to improve it every chance I get.

All I can do is make my case, and people can decide whether I make cogent points. Maybe 1 person thinks I'm an idiot and rather buys a cheap 120W, guess what, I'm genuinely happy for them, and will give them grow advice or any advice for free. Heck I'll help them choose the best option for them.
..But perhaps the next person or the one after that sees the value in what I've done to make growing using my light a breeze, and they appreciate that, perhaps they will choose to purchase one. 

Yes, thank you, I realise times are tough, if you think I'm putting a massive mark up on my lights, you're just dead wrong.

I'm sorry, where did I say that 2 of my lights are perfect to buy for a 1.2x.06?
I didn't.
Should I not state that they will fit that size of tent and what the dimming options are?
Should I not then also inform them that two lights will also cater to larger sizes in a similar but larger dimension? 

I didn't make that argument. Without asking me anything, you have assumed all of this.

If you had ever asked me any questions, and not just assumed everything, you'd know that I am the FIRST one to suggest products from other local brands. I love LED lighting! I would never push my product on anyone. I would feel terrible if someone wasn't 100% happy with their purchase. I am the type of guy to suggest other brands over mine if your budget is too small. If we aren't happy growing, what's the point.

I have no opinion on whether weed should be grown quickly or slowly. It's necessarily use-case scenario dependant. You are the one who commented on me growing slowly, I didn't come to your thread and say you grow too quickly.

9 minutes ago, Prom said:

^^ Sorry.. i was just over your site and just want to set things in the right way. I honestly like everything I see.. look neat and tidy. I like.. but... yeah the but ^^ I honestly would slim the whole configuration down. Place the dimmer side ways and connect only 2 bars to the 120w driver. Should provide a good foot print and as you use bars (love em) the air flow will be still sexy. Three setting, for three distances. For the 1.2x1.2 area i recommend to offer one lamp using 4 hangers and 8 of your bars split evenly over the 1x1 frame. 480 watts. If you want to go nuts.. 600, add 1 bar.. but 600 is about the max you should put on a 1.2x1.2 or you simply generate heat for nothing. There is also to much light ^^

I see you want to be rather versatile on grow areas. I would more focus on 0.6x0.6, 1.2x0.6 and 1.2x1.2.. bigger tents just add several 1.2x1.2 setups.. I use 16 x 120w QBs in a 2.4x2.4. 

Ok thanks.

"I honestly would slim the whole configuration down. Place the dimmer side ways and connect only 2 bars to the 120w driver."

Place the dimmer sideways? The point is that the driver can be attached to the light or outside the tent. And it's easy to access either way. But I do also like the driver/dimmer combo drivers.

At this stage, I'm starting with 1 light that is versatile, rather than multiple products, because I want to be successful and provide excellent customer care, and at this stage that is the most important consideration.

More products require more IEC tests and more NRCS approvals. Hence my strategy of a medium powered light with the ability to be used for multiple situations.

"For the 1.2x1.2 area i recommend to offer one lamp using 4 hangers and 8 of your bars split evenly over the 1x1 frame. 480 watts. If you want to go nuts.. 600, add 1 bar.. but 600 is about the max you should put on a 1.2x1.2 or you simply generate heat for nothing. There is also to much light"

Yep, not bad suggestions at all, but a very traditional market approach, and not one that suits my current situation.

I'm a new business and I've illustrated my reasons/concerns above. But I obviously desire to expand with different SKU's for different applications. But for an initial product, I've decided to go with flexibility as my main goal.

My reputation is everything, and I want only to offer products that I would be happy buying myself.

"I see you want to be rather versatile on grow areas. I would more focus on 0.6x0.6, 1.2x0.6 and 1.2x1.2.. bigger tents just add several 1.2x1.2 setups.. I use 16 x 120w QBs in a 2.4x2.4."

Fair enough, in my opinion the strategy you describe involves single products that cater to specific, individual tent sizes, whereas I view the word versatile as pertaining more to a situation that involves 1 product being able to be used in multiple situations, and then expanded by adding more of the same product.

However, I have only developed this one 240W light, I have all the official/legal certifications and documents, I've invested all my energy into it. And I love using it myself.

I will defintely take your advice on board with respect to the future! I have a massive passion for grow lighting, I friggin love this stuff, I live and breathe it. I hope that I project that passion and am not misunderstood as trying to possibly mislead people, as your posts have seemed to infer.
 

2 minutes ago, Prom said:

Only if you run a wattage display for the input. And if you have that in your setup... which i do not see, you might want to write that one is required to use your light profiles. If you add one, you take the confusion out. Light is to most confusing as they only think in the spectrum they see them self.

My main issue with the space, why buy a 240watt lamp when a 120 would do the trick. Why invest into a lamp way to big for the area you want to use it for. Yes, you can use a bigger lamp on a smaller space.. but why buy it in the first place if your grow space is just what it is? I use a dimmer only on 1 of my 120w QBs.. that is in the 0.6x0.6 breeding tent and the tent is not high enough to hang the light at the correct distance on max. Rest is on or off. If we stick to 1.2x1.2 (a bit the standard tent size these days), i use 2 QBs (240w) during veg and add 2 for flower. I kinda agree that using one setup dimmed to Veg and max on flower works... but what reason is it to run a lamp on 50% during flower. My brain tells me that i could simply buy a smaller one.. as they are usually also cheaper ^^

Can you see the image of my dimmer?

I've spent 100s of hours creating indicator marks for the dimmer sticker and I calibrate each light to be as accurate as possible..

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe I have made a few very logical points, which you don't find valid at all.

My final attempt for clarification:

Your main issue:
Why buy a 240W when a 120W will do: 60cm tent as example:
- Better PAR spread.
- Option to use higher light levels.
- Reduced electricity consumption, due to dimming increasing system efficiency.
- A dimmed light creates less heat, allows easier control of environment temperature (not everyone has AC)
- Many people don't just buy one tent size with no intention to expand to larger sizes.
-- The single 240W can then be transferred to larger sized tents (up to 90cm for single light)
-- Option for a second light to be added to cater to non-square dimension tents/spaces 

"but what reason is it to run a lamp on 50% during flower. My brain tells me that i could simply buy a smaller one.. as they are usually also cheaper"

It seems as if I'm repeating myself, but one reason someone would not run a light at 100%, is that it increases the efficiency of the light, using less electricity. Another is it results in less heat in the grow space that needs to be exhausted. Can be particularly helpful in hotter seasons.

But yes, you can buy a cheaper light, that will get the job done nicely in that particular sized tent only, that too is an option.
 

1 hour ago, Prom said:

OK... what dimmer position on your lamps to reach 1000 micromoles PAR at 50cm distance... or what setting you give your customers? Your 1.2x1.2 doesn't make sense to use... you buy to much lamp to dim it all the time, then you can simple buy a cheaper lamp.. or??? So i do not see the advantage you talk about. Dual fixture.. i have a tent like that... 1.2x0.6.. why would I hang lamps in with a wattage you use on 1.2x1.2? Sorrryyyy but is just to much... and using a dimmer demands a Quantum Flux Meter to set them right or have on the dimmer the right setting marked for distances you provide. Lamps are one of the most essential tool in indoor growing. Guessing is the last you want to do... you have numbers to work with. Germination, Vegetation and Flower... they need very different light setups on each stage. How you hang your lights for each?

For which size tent? I currently only have PAR maps for 60/70/80/90 at the moment (available for download on my site). I'm a new business.

First of all, I have to at least show that 4 lights will in fact fit a 1.2x1.2 space, in addition to the next size up 1.5x1.5, to show the versatility of multiple lights vs buying 1 light for 1 specific size tent.

Would I buy 4 of my lights only for a 1.2mx1.2m tent, no. If I had a multiple tents, including a 1.5x1.5 and a 1.2x1.2, would I want to know if it will fit them? Well now I know.
Yes you can buy a cheaper light for the 1.2x1.2, but could that light then also be transferable to a 1.5x1.5, no. So that is 1 advantage. 

Multiple lights can also accommodate differently/oddly sized grow spaces. That's another advantage.

Look I can see your point, but you seem to be misunderstanding my intentions.

"Dual fixture.. i have a tent like that... 1.2x0.6.. why would I hang lamps in with a wattage you use on 1.2x1.2? Sorrryyyy but is just to much... and using a dimmer demands a Quantum Flux Meter to set them right or have on the dimmer the right setting marked for distances you provide."

I don't believe I've told anyone to use 1.2x1.2 wattage in a 1.2x0.6? Two lights can only provide max-480W. The whole point is that multiple smaller lights can suit many situations. Rather than 1 light designed for 1 specific size of tent. Maybe I'm crazy, but I regard that as a benefit? Am I crazy over here!?

A further benefit of having more power than you need, is the ability to dim the light, which not only increases the efficiency of the system, it creates far less heat, and in climates like SA it can be a huge positive aspect for the hotter periods of the year, since air-conditioning is expensive to buy and run.
Perhaps a person has to put a grow tent in an area that has little access to fresh air. The ability to keep temps low is huge.

No, using a dimmer doesn't require a quantum sensor, because I've made PAR maps. They come in the box, and are available to download on my site.

LEAF-PAR-Maps-Web.pdf

I personally calibrate each light to be as accurate as possible.

"Lamps are one of the most essential tool in indoor growing. Guessing is the last you want to do... you have numbers to work with. Germination, Vegetation and Flower... they need very different light setups on each stage. How you hang your lights for each?"

Yes I realise this, thank you

I would love for you to make a suggestion(s) as to how I can better describe my product, as you seem to have come away with a very negative impression. It's very disheartening.

12 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

Joh, four fixtures in a 1.2x1.2 seems a bit overkill. I'm rocking just two easybreazy. 

Again, it is merely to illustrate the flexibility of multiple smaller lights. As I say, I have to at least let people know that 4 lights will indeed fit that space, 1.2m, in addition to easily flowering the next significant tent size up, 1.5m.

Obviously 960W is overkill for a 1.2m, but that's why there is a dimmer with accurate wattage control. That's why I use words like "up to" and "max", to better show the limits.

Eg. in the image of 2x lights in a 1.2x0.6m tent, I say 240W-dimmed.

Additionally, 4 separate lights have the ability to be setup either closer or further apart, so you can spread the PAR more evenly in a larger space, vs 1 large, centrally located light. 

If yall can suggest better wording/approach, then I'm happy to change it!

40 minutes ago, Prom said:

Is not me putting 1.2x1.2 there..  ^^ don't get me wrong, numbers should somehow fit the use and not make people guess what is right.

Lets make it easier. Your 4 fixture. How far do your lamps have to hang on a 1.2x1.2 or 1.5x1.5 area to reach 1000 micromoles PAR? 

Hehe, I honestly don't understand the confusion

"SINGLE FIXTURE (240W max)
Fits: 60cm | 70cm | 80cm | 90cm

DUAL FIXTURES (480W max)
Fits: 120cm x 60cm and up

4 FIXTURES (960W max)
Fits: 120cm x 120cm –
150cm x 150cm"

- and then I have images illustrating the different setups in the different tent dimensions.

- Should I say "Fits IN:" ? Would that help?

All that text is meant to explain is that: 4x fixtures will fit in a 1.2mx1.2m tent, they will also fit in a 1.5mx1.5m tent. And can flower both, but dimmed in the 1.2mx1.2m, and in the 1.5mx1.5m you can use up to 960W or less, maybe around 800W, if you'd like.

I don't have a 1.2mx1.2m+ test space to test the hanging height for 4 fixtures, but the hanging height will probably be a bit less than for a single light. (for which I've painstakingly made comprehensive PAR maps)

If somebody actually buys 4 lights at once, then I'll obviously have to build a bigger 1.5m test space, and provide exact data. More than happy to do so. I just don't have the space to easily do so, but I'll make a plan. 

5 hours ago, Prom said:

I guess on the 4 fixtures 1.2x1.2 is flower and 1.5x1.5 is for veg? 

Why would you say that? 960W is more than enough to flower a 1.5x1.5? Am I missing something?

Eg.
Mars Hydro:  FC8000 800W, FC-E8000 800W
Spider Farmer: SE7000 - 730W, SE1000 - 1000W, G860 - 860W, G1000 - 1000W.

- All marketed towards 1.5mx1.5m. In fact the 1000W models are marketed more towards supplementary C02 users.

Time for a do-over.

6 hours ago, ThePlantonomicon said:

I saw an ad once and never again, then with a Google search I couldn't find those lights again, is there a website they're on? I am especially interested in them since they're local brand

Hey man, I'm unsure of the rules about posting my website. I think it's ok since you're asking me (don't want to get banned!  )
When I search "leaf grow lights" on google it comes up for me, but it may be a delayed synchronisation thing.
https://leafgrowlights.co.za/
https://www.instagram.com/leafgrowlights/

DM me here or on any platform if you have any questions!

@200W | 80cm tent. Flower Day 36: OG Mandarin Cookies, Frozen Fuel PH5, Ginger Tea, Mandarin Sunset.

Definitely overtrained, this lot just didn't stretch like the Crazy Haze, lesson learned. Excited to start over.

EMS-240 - @120W | 60cm tent. Crazy Haze: Flower Day 33. Surviving shedding so far, no signs of nanners...yet. Most amazing, pungent, citrus terpenes. This pheno is head and shoulders above the other clones I was gifted. 

2 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

Have you had any PM issues in the past? I'd be slightly nervous with the amount of vegetation happening at the moment in that tent and I'd probably start removing fan leaves starting from the bottom until I could reasonably see through the canopy from the top. 

Definitely, in bunched up buds mostly, never widespread! But you're exactly right to suggest more defoliation. Believe me I've been constantly selectively removing a bunch of leaves, even though it doesn't look like it. Few days later and they recover too quickly. But as per your suggestion I did go ahead and do a more serious chop last night!

Appreciate the feedback, I must learn to get the timing and amount of defoliation down a lot better. Also need to step back a notch or two on the training.

EMS-240 - @200W | 80cm tent. Flower Day 26: OG Mandarin Cookies, Frozen Fuel PH5, Ginger Tea, Mandarin Sunset.

Ok maybe I take training a little too far sometimes, so it's probably a little too flat and lacking vertical breathing room. In  my defense it's my favourite part of growing, so I can't promise it won't happen again. Always learning to do less of one thing and more of another. 

60cm tent. Flower Day 26: Crazy Haze.

On 9/28/2022 at 5:59 PM, Prom said:

Just saw the ad here for Leaf grow lights.. somebody tried them? I get the idea that who ever sells those lights comes very much from the HID sector. Running nearly 1000w on a 1.2x1.2 is a bit much ^^ i use 440-480w on a 1.2x1.2 and rather happy. Curious if somebody tried those lights with the settings the light comes with and how it ended.

Oh hey dude, that's actually me! Remember you lent me your quantum sensor??

 I haven't ventured outside Grow Diaries for a while.

Oh I see where it's confusing: "4 FIXTURES (960W*)  Fits: 120cm x 120cm and up"

It's supposed to be 2 statements, 4 fixtures are able to provide 960W, and 4 will fit in a 120cm x 120cm tent.

- I'll delete the mention of wattage there, or add *max, what do you suggest?

How about this:
"SINGLE FIXTURE (240W max)
Fits: 60cm | 70cm | 80cm | 90cm

DUAL FIXTURES (480W max)
Fits: 120cm x 60cm and up

4 FIXTURES (960W max)
Fits: 120cm x 120cm -
150cm x 150cm"

Likewise, I'd also not suggest 480W for a 120x60cm, 240W-300W max more like it.

No I don't come from HID. The reference to 960W is merely to demonstrate the option for people using CO2 (hence why it states "max", as in it's capable of that if desired), also indicating that it can flower a larger space. Just like the 1000W fixtures from a few other big companies (Spider Farmer does 2x 1000W models actually, using two different led brands for separate price-points)

I'll update the website to state as much. I never intended anyone to think that they MUST use full power!  The point was to show that multiple smaller fixtures can scale more easily.

I'm an 800 ppfd kind of guy myself, as I don't use CO2.

I state on my PAR maps that are included in the box that over 800ppfd starts to require elevated CO2 levels beyond the regular 400ppm to fully utilise the benefit thereof (and apparently those bags and bottles are useless - Migro Shane says he tested them). And even then your temps/humidity/nutes have to be on point.

I appreciate the feedback though! Let me know if anything else is confusing or crappy looking!

Oh yea, that space is filling up nicely! I hear ya about keeping up on the defol! Hopefully it will stay around 30c max!?
..Perhaps the powerful fans will help.

80cm tent - 200W. Flower Day 18: OG Mandarin Cookies, Frozen Fuel PH5, Ginger Tea, Mandarin Sunset.

60cm tent - 120W. Crazy Haze: Flower Day 22.

Crazy Haze: Flower Day 18 - Thanks to Eskom interrupting the timer it received 24hr of light. Great.. So possible herm action in the near future. 

Day 10 Flower: OG Mandarin Cookies, Frozen Fuel PH5, Ginger Tea, Mandarin Sunset

11 minutes ago, Totemic said:

You pH your feeds on the FF premium? 

I have never pHed my organics to be honest, and let the microherd manage the pH. This is with the Biobizz range

Yep, I'm still using GHE Micro+Bloom, and FF recommends 5.5pH on their website.

I usually start with conservative levels of nutes near to the end of veg. This time I'm trying higher levels than I ever have before, closer to the Lucas formula for Coco, 6ml Micro / 12ml Bloom per gallon (3.785l), though my mixing bottle is 5l, so still a bit weaker.. I'll also mix 3ml/6ml into 2l if I need less. 

Def considering Biobizz, but want to be competent using the GHE before moving on.