The_StonedTrooper Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I see these 2 eyeing each other out, and should get a room 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: did they start sexing after a month on 18/6 then or do you only start counting now? another question I have on this topic is, when pheno hunting to stabilise a genetic when does one bring in stressing factors to see how well who does and fights for itself against pests and diseases? do you use a refractometer or just go by looks and your personal feel? Yeah preflowers are easily distinguishable as male or female at 31 days from seed. This is a seed run to get me to the F2s, where the real pheno hunting begins. This is a stable F1 generation, but the F2 generation may or may not present with unfavorable traits. Selecting for pest resistance is actually quite low on my selection list. My selection is intuitive, involves look, feel, smell, growth patterns. This male selection on this run will be my 6th consecutive selection on the chocolope NL lineage. I've learnt what my males with that lineage generally pass on to females. Males add a lot more than people generally think. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said: I see these 2 eyeing each other out, and should get a room That one bottom right pheno I actually an outlier... Different leaf shape, smell, structure is all off so it's going to be interesting. So far, it's actually the back 4 males and back 4 females that are expressing the phenotype I'm interested in. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 29 minutes ago, Totemic said: Yeah preflowers are easily distinguishable as male or female at 31 days from seed. This is a seed run to get me to the F2s, where the real pheno hunting begins. This is a stable F1 generation, but the F2 generation may or may not present with unfavorable traits. Selecting for pest resistance is actually quite low on my selection list. My selection is intuitive, involves look, feel, smell, growth patterns. This male selection on this run will be my 6th consecutive selection on the chocolope NL lineage. I've learnt what my males with that lineage generally pass on to females. Males add a lot more than people generally think. I have seen my plants show sex on 18.6 before but haven't noticed it that early, might just have to train my eye a bit I understand you say the F2 is where the real hunt begin, but coming from the F1 that is already stable to an extent would they not already be a bit more stable? Are the F2s being bred to isolate traits of the current Tortonis or because you're looking for different traits? I see I see, I guess part of the growers responsibility is also plant health and obviously, or more like hopefully every true breeder will only care to work with healthy plants that are not making their days harder. before I got on the forum and really started growing I remember hearing a lot about this Chocolope strain, everyone was growing it and this was about 2-3 years back. so I know you been working with it for a while. then I joined the forum when, lo and behold, the mastermind behind it all. I feel honored! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: I have seen my plants show sex on 18.6 before but haven't noticed it that early, might just have to train my eye a bit I understand you say the F2 is where the real hunt begin, but coming from the F1 that is already stable to an extent would they not already be a bit more stable? Are the F2s being bred to isolate traits of the current Tortonis or because you're looking for different traits? I see I see, I guess part of the growers responsibility is also plant health and obviously, or more like hopefully every true breeder will only care to work with healthy plants that are not making their days harder. before I got on the forum and really started growing I remember hearing a lot about this Chocolope strain, everyone was growing it and this was about 2-3 years back. so I know you been working with it for a while. then I joined the forum when, lo and behold, the mastermind behind it all. I feel honored! Some plants just don't really push the primordial flowers, but I've found that expressing the sex has little to do with time passed, and more to do with how far the plant development is. Most F1 generations are really homozygous, especially when the parents are genetically far apart. It creates a true F1 hybrid. Using similar or closely related parent plants don't necessarily create a new hybrid expression, but just express similar to that line(like all the lines with GSC lines... They are all the same.... The F2 recombination event is an interesting one, and many previously recessive traits become dominant, previously dominant traits either recess or lock in. The F2 generation is never a stable generation, and this is especially true due to the polyhybrid that this line is. There are many directions one can take a line. I'm not looking for different traits, but looking to isolate the current F1 traits and lock them in to a stable F4. Healthy cannabis plants are actually quite resilient against pest and disease as they are aromatic plants with volatile terpenes and cannabinoids. It becomes an issue with plants in isolation to other plants. Pests don't have a choice so they go for the cannabis. In an ecosystem the pests would way rather eat something else. As for environmental diseases like PM etc, epigenetics play a role and generation after generation rewrites their DNA based on the environment they experience as an evolutionary step. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Totemic said: Some plants just don't really push the primordial flowers, but I've found that expressing the sex has little to do with time passed, and more to do with how far the plant development is. Most F1 generations are really homozygous, especially when the parents are genetically far apart. It creates a true F1 hybrid. Using similar or closely related parent plants don't necessarily create a new hybrid expression, but just express similar to that line(like all the lines with GSC lines... They are all the same.... The F2 recombination event is an interesting one, and many previously recessive traits become dominant, previously dominant traits either recess or lock in. The F2 generation is never a stable generation, and this is especially true due to the polyhybrid that this line is. There are many directions one can take a line. I'm not looking for different traits, but looking to isolate the current F1 traits and lock them in to a stable F4. Healthy cannabis plants are actually quite resilient against pest and disease as they are aromatic plants with volatile terpenes and cannabinoids. It becomes an issue with plants in isolation to other plants. Pests don't have a choice so they go for the cannabis. In an ecosystem the pests would way rather eat something else. As for environmental diseases like PM etc, epigenetics play a role and generation after generation rewrites their DNA based on the environment they experience as an evolutionary step. I see, I have also noticed that stress can push them to show preflowers. a batch of clones all from the same plant, 2 started stressing pushed pistils during 18.6. some guys wait about a month, then just switch to 12.12 just to get the sex and then take things from there. so ultimately, you are stabilising, but still have to complete a few runs? according to your way of look and feel would you concider them stable at F4 because of the line you're working with or does this stay the same across the board? and do you first do a run to see how many different traits pop up or how would you determine pheno stability? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Just now, Naughty.Psychonaut said: does this stay the same across the board? sorry this was dumb to ask, obviously it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: I see, I have also noticed that stress can push them to show preflowers. a batch of clones all from the same plant, 2 started stressing pushed pistils during 18.6. some guys wait about a month, then just switch to 12.12 just to get the sex and then take things from there. so ultimately, you are stabilising, but still have to complete a few runs? according to your way of look and feel would you concider them stable at F4 because of the line you're working with or does this stay the same across the board? and do you first do a run to see how many different traits pop up or how would you determine pheno stability? The difference visually when comparing an F3 population to the next f4 population is astounding. F4 you hit a stable output for whatever you were selecting. F4 is a sweet spot. F2 and F3 are still unstable. From F5 you start trading vigor for stability. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 54 minutes ago, Totemic said: The difference visually when comparing an F3 population to the next f4 population is astounding. F4 you hit a stable output for whatever you were selecting. F4 is a sweet spot. F2 and F3 are still unstable. From F5 you start trading vigor for stability. what hahahah so I was wrong about being wrong, the F4s generally have more stability across the board. crazyness... I would assume this is only the case when you been doing everything on point since the beginning. have seen some questionable breeding projects go down hahah never had the pleasure of following a project along that got so far as to make f4s will be very exciting to see how they turn out!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 30 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: what hahahah so I was wrong about being wrong, the F4s generally have more stability across the board. crazyness... I would assume this is only the case when you been doing everything on point since the beginning. have seen some questionable breeding projects go down hahah never had the pleasure of following a project along that got so far as to make f4s will be very exciting to see how they turn out!! That's why I'm documenting my grows as best I can. You can be sure I'll be posting up logs for each generation I work on. Taking a new cross and turning it into a strain. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weskush Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Observing, learning. This is the best Weed School i've come across so far. Much appreciated 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 So the first 5 males have been removed, and the 4 unknowns are girls, so 14 girls. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Nice high percentage girls , you lucky guy Sent from my Hisense Infinity H50 using Tapatalk 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Canna Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Incredibly interesting to follow, I must say! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 Today was a long plant day for me. Finally sure on sex, and one of the girls is actually a he... Transplanted to 15l. Back on a veg cycle for 2 to 3 weeks for the roots to just fill the pots a bit. I'll then be cloning them all, and flipping then. I've also split the girls into the different pheno groups that are emerging. Group 2 and 3 are the groups I'm mainly interested in. The males are all really interesting, but I've chosen one that has the most uniform node development, representing in group 2 and 3. I'm taking clones of the other males too and will keep them around a while. The chosen male Group 2 and 3 females The 4 males that are not making the cut. They are off to new homes. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Plants look super healthy man Sent from my Hisense Infinity H50 using Tapatalk 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, GGG said: Plants look super healthy man Sent from my Hisense Infinity H50 using Tapatalk Yeah gave them a feed too soon at 3 weeks, but they've come through. I've also been running the light closer and a bit more intense than normal to compact the nodes, since I'm not planning on topping them. Normal light height these plants would have been twice the height at 11 nodes. Edited May 23, 2021 by Totemic 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzcanna Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) What's your method on sex revealing? Do you let them grow & reveal sex normally, stress by training to force them to reveal sex early or do you flower early and than revert back to veg once you have identified sex and selected the ones you want? Edit: Early Flower (sorry didn't read all post) Edited May 23, 2021 by Marzcanna 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Marzcanna said: What's your method on sex revealing? Do you let them grow & reveal sex normally, stress by training to force them to reveal sex early or do you flower early and than revert back to veg once you have identified sex and selected the ones you want? Just switch to a Flowering cycle for 4 days once the preflowers are visible, then back to veg. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzcanna Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Totemic said: Just switch to a Flowering cycle for 4 days once the preflowers are visible, then back to veg. This makes sense. Looks like you have some phenos worth keeping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 27, 2021 Author Share Posted May 27, 2021 6 weeks from seed today. These girls are just starting to explode. You can see a clear size difference between the tall and short phenos. I'll give then another week for the roots to settle, then I'll flip. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger96 Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 Looking good there.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 Looking lekker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORGANinc. Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 5 hours ago, Totemic said: 6 weeks from seed today. These girls are just starting to explode. You can see a clear size difference between the tall and short phenos. I'll give then another week for the roots to settle, then I'll flip. Geez they look good for 6 weeks bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted May 28, 2021 Author Share Posted May 28, 2021 When your male starts doing this Can't wait to see his expression in a week or so more... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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