Dont know anymore

[BigBud]

With my first mid range grow attempt i thought I'd give 'just canabis' medium a try. You know, the easy start. Just add water right?

 

Well look at the images attached thats giving it 6.5phed water, nothing else. I started thinking my ph pen could be a issue but friends seem to have great success with cheap ass ones. I have the plant!t one.

 

So these are both autos Northern sky and blueberry. I think they flowered way too soon but i know nothing about autos. Had it on 20 hours light and 4 sleepy-time.

Both are super light green with one weirdass dried leaf and the rest of the plans is lime green :/. The blueberry is dried everywhere eish.

So thinking it could be N deficiency i gave it a tiny bit of ghe (grow, micro and bloom) mix and epson salts. My plants tend to be very small, must be something im missing...

Disappointed that its not as easy as i thought with the soil since i thought if going straight coco but yeah.

Some pointers on what i can try would be appreciated. I have two photoperiod seeds I'll try next. I was excited for the autos tho. 

Help me fill my tent with plant :P please

[PsyCLown]

I feel it is a common misconception that soil is easier than coco... Those plants look pretty hungry to me.

 

Being autos, not much you can do now unfortunately. Autos need the perfect environment in order for them to thrive, otherwise your yield will be reduced. They do not leave much room for error.

 

There are better soils out there - Freedom Farms (premium classic, green bag) is very popular and Organics Matter is good as well. Both of these soils have had some issues in the past with some batches. Soil will never be 100% consistent unfortunately.

If you want to continue giving soil a try, I would recommend one of those two. Currently, continue feeding your plants with nutes and perhaps drop the PH a little as well, to around 6.2 as I believe Just Cannabis is not so much a soil as it is coco with amendments... not sure if there is even anything to help buffer the PH.

 

How dry is your medium? Do not let it dry out too much. Looks as if the plants may have gotten quite dry as well.
Also what is the purpose of the leca ontop of the medium?

[Ill_Evan]

Just Cannabis can be super sketchy, it's a hit/miss I find. It tends to be "too hot" for most plants, hence the claims that all you do is add water. 

Also, I feel that with soil/coco, adding only pH 6.5 water might not be the move. I like to add water that is more on the acidic side, as in about pH 5.8.

Soil/coco can raise the pH much easier than it can drop it on it's own, I believe it is the calcium within the substrate which allows for this. 

Your plants may just be unable to have absorbed as much nitrogen as it needed due to the pH imbalance. 

I'd be willing to bet that if you changed your medium to say either Organics Matters Living Soil, Freedom Farms Classic or any good packaged coco like Atami High Porosity or Gold Label Coco and used the appropriate nutrients (BioBizz for organic soil / GHE for coco) you'll be surprised how much easier it is. 

Grows like this can throw people off and honestly I'd blame whoever sold you the soil that didn't give you the right advise. 

[PsyCLown]

Just Cannabis can be super sketchy, it's a hit/miss I find. It tends to be "too hot" for most plants, hence the claims that all you do is add water. 
Also, I feel that with soil/coco, adding only pH 6.5 water might not be the move. I like to add water that is more on the acidic side, as in about pH 5.8.
Soil/coco can raise the pH much easier than it can drop it on it's own, I believe it is the calcium within the substrate which allows for this. 
Your plants may just be unable to have absorbed as much nitrogen as it needed due to the pH imbalance. 
I'd be willing to bet that if you changed your medium to say either Organics Matters Living Soil, Freedom Farms Classic or any good packaged coco like Atami High Porosity or Gold Label Coco and used the appropriate nutrients (BioBizz for organic soil / GHE for coco) you'll be surprised how much easier it is. 
Grows like this can throw people off and honestly I'd blame whoever sold you the soil that didn't give you the right advise. 

I must agree, growing isn't difficult when you use the right products and have the right equipment.

Lots of members on this forum will be more than happy to help you and guide you through your grows.
Decide which route you'd like to go for your next grow (soil, coco or something else), let us know and you'll get assistance for sure!

Nothing wrong with soil or coco. I personally prefer coco but had good success when I used soil as well.

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[Ill_Evan]

3 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Nothing wrong with soil or coco. I personally prefer coco but had good success when I used soil as well.
 

Personally, I have seriously enjoyed coco and GHE for my indoor plants, and I like using organic soil with BioBizz for my mother plants and outdoor plants. 

[Bos]

Agree with the above comments.

Just Cannabis seems to be a bit of hit and mis, seems to be more coco than 'soil', dont need those kind of problems especially with autos. 

Mate of mine ran into issues with JC, was having PH related 'N' deficiencies, but managed to pull through by flushing, but the plants were small.

JC Soil seems hot or not properly matured, read suggestions that mixing JC with FF could stabilize it a bit?

 

[BigBud]

Thanks a bunch for the comments and assistance!

I did notice in the very early stages that my plants got N burn from the soil. Raised an eyebrow there but thought it's hot due to the soil lasting the full grow cycle :0.

I used FF greenbag previously as my first grow and managed a harvest of 30gs. Poor but better than this 5 im looking at.

Reason for wanting to use soil is that i do not have the space to flush. Currently growing in a store room without a water point (in or out). So i water by taking 5ls to the girls.

Another question that came up is how dry my plants get. Well, pretty dry. I added the clay pallets to the top, trying to fight off gnats. Drying them out after the greening/yellowing started.

How much water, approximately, will a plant need in a 20l pot? The ground beneath the pot seem to get wet after 1.5 - 2 liters. This is when i stop

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[Ill_Evan]

1 hour ago, BigBud said:

How much water, approximately, will a plant need in a 20l pot? The ground beneath the pot seem to get wet after 1.5 - 2 liters. This is when i stop

I rate you're about right for those sized plants.

In future when you start getting some decent sized plants you could go more without having any runoff.

I use 50L total to water 12 x 20L pots with plants at least 80cm tall which is about 4L per pot in full flower. I water about every 3 days.

[Ill_Evan]

@BigBud where you based? If you happen to be in the area I can hook you up with some clones to fast track you on the next one. 

[PsyCLown]

@BigBud I'd say move over to photoperiod instead as they're more forgiving.

You do not need to flush with coco... I never do... Not even before harvest. So if that was your reason to avoid coco, then I say move over to coco for your next grow.

When my plants are big they easily take 3L of water into a 20L pot.

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[Ill_Evan]

3 hours ago, BigBud said:

i do not have the space to flush

 

4 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

You do not need to flush with coco... I never do... Not even before harvest. So if that was your reason to avoid coco, then I say move over to coco for your next grow.

Flushing before harvest is definitely a myth. Flushing should only be used as a tool to fix a major pH imbalance or bad nute regime. 

Here is the Science.

[PsyCLown]

Flushing before harvest is definitely a myth. Flushing should only be used as a tool to fix a major pH imbalance or bad nute regime. 
Here is the 

.

Exactly and agreed 100%

Flushing soil isn't going to make as much of a difference as flushing coco as well.
Good luck flushing out all the amendments in soil, with coco it's far easier.

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[Leeroy420]

Hey yeah i had a mate with the same issue using ff soil. He never added nutes and had n deficiency. I suppose peopel scared to use coco due to the fact that it's got no amendments in. Im on my first grow with coco/perlite and find it realy simple to use so far . Only thing is you have to add nutes from the get go.so just follow your nutrition chart and all wil go smoothly.im using 15lt pots and water 2lt then my pots are just right, if i go 3lt then i get a +-20% run off, i do that every 3rd watering just for salt build up. But dont think its really necessary. I ph my plants at 6.thats just because im using ph drops. So its not 100%accurate. But so far no hassels. Coco is really simple and effective.

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[BigBud]

I'm over struggling. I added Atami to my cart and noticed it's slightly more expensive but convenient size.

How important would a EC/TDM meter be at this stage? This is something i wasn't too keen on getting into. Would i rather get a cheapy than upgrade my ph pen?
@Ill_Evan - im in the Northern Suburbs of Western Cape and hoping you're close-by :D. Else I'm practicing with bag seed XD.

Another question... How does feeding work? Is it every 3rd water or only once a deficiency is spotted. I also see most people saying to half the dose of nutes (ghe) which i did with my previous grow however, my plants stayed miniature.

I dont have the biggest setup but expected at least 100gs in the space (one day)
80*80 + TS1000

Much thanks again

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[Leeroy420]

I would say get a ec meter. Will help you in your next grow. Feeding depends on your medium. if not mistaken ff, just cannabis, royal gorilla ect they have amendments in for like a month or 2.half dosage is just to safe gaurd yourself from nute burn in early stages of your plant life,once the plant is in full veg then up the dosage. I add nutes every watering,mostly the plant will show you signs, if its hungry or getting to much nutes. There is a site growweedeasy.com you can have a look at with good guidelines and tips. Another thing i would recommend is to buy seed, even if its cheapies from biltong and buds,they have some from the bulk seed bank thats R65 a pop or you can try some of totemic's genetics i think its like 300 for 10beans. Sometimes with bag seeds,you get messed up genetics and then you just gonna struggle.

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[BigBud]

Honestly have been dong research nonstop.

The seeds im using now and will be using next are bought seeds. Next in line is cocopopo and royal wedding cake.

I read so much on that site. On my first grow i felt like i was getting deficiencies and burn. Dark green tips with rusty yellow edges. Just feels like im catching it too late or getting more than one deficiency.

Thanks for the info on the feeding as this was always a grey area for me. So full dosed ghe (as indicated on the bottle) should be fine in full on veg? Everywhere i read people said to never give full strength nutes as indicated...

Just trying to sift trough all the information. Definitely going coco and nute next. 

[Prom]

I somehow missed this one ^^

Looking at your plants.. with the few pictures there are.. is very very hard to say what is going on. Please run a grow diary for your next grow and update with pictures TWICE a week  We don't ask for those to laugh our socks off.. but gives a fair chance to help with good advice.

When you have plants in a condition like yours, can be to much water, to little water, starvation, lockout,.. the lockout alone can be N, P, K or Calcium. Without a time laps to see how your plants got there.. very much impossible to give accurate advice. There isn't much green on your plants anymore.. they are dying.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Prom
forgot the N ^^

[BigBud]

Gentlemen, i thank you all kindly.

It's sad but its a fact. As you say, they're dying :(

Next time I'm sticking to solo plant for full focus and keeping journal here. For now, I'm holding thumbs just to see these ladies through to the end.



Also want to led diy but need to get growing first XD


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[Leeroy420]

Honestly have been dong research nonstop.
The seeds im using now and will be using next are bought seeds. Next in line is cocopopo and royal wedding cake.
I read so much on that site. On my first grow i felt like i was getting deficiencies and burn. Dark green tips with rusty yellow edges. Just feels like im catching it too late or getting more than one deficiency.
Thanks for the info on the feeding as this was always a grey area for me. So full dosed ghe (as indicated on the bottle) should be fine in full on veg? Everywhere i read people said to never give full strength nutes as indicated...
Just trying to sift trough all the information. Definitely going coco and nute next. 

Its all trial and error until you get the hang of it. I havent personally used ghe nutes maybe the other guys can assist with that. Im using hortimix nutes and im running on full strength from there chart.my grow isnt perfect, also getting a bit of nute burn. I think everybodys firts few grows run into problems. Just carry on and dont stop trying..like prom said there can be multiple things that went wrong.over watering, under watering.maybe even your water source. Dont know if you using tap water or tank or bottle.many factors play its part in growing..best thing is to do the grow diary with your next grow and the guys wil help you with it.

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[Prom]

If your strains have all the same duration, that helps.. or, better, run a grow sheet for each strain/plant. If you fertilize a 8-9 week plant with a 12 week plan.. harvest will suffer.. if you use a 8 week plan on a 12 week plant, the plant might not enjoy that. At one stage, you add 1 + 1 and get to the needed result. Is like driving a car, there a loads of different ways to drive it, each has a bit their own gusto and style. But if you just stay on the break.. or the accelerator.. your car will suffer.

If you use a fertilizer giving you the freedom like: use x amount of in Veg, other bottle will be x amount for flower.. do that, the bigger they get, the more they drink. If a system like BioBizz gives you a weekly layout.. check that your plants fit that layout or put a few seconds of thought into it.. you might have to increase or reduce the dosage to get to the same result. Starting in week8 with TopMax.. on a 9 week plant.. is a bit to late ^^ just as example. 

Most people over water their plants and think constant moisture is good.. cannabis wants a dry phase, and if you follow them, they grow stronger. Fine soil and constant wet will keep your plants on the smaller side, what ever you do.

Don't give up.. that was a starter hickup, and I agree with the guys before, perhaps you might want to swap the grow shop too ^^ Your plants were struggling for weeks to get to the point they are now. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Prom
i just suck typing English ^^

[Ill_Evan]

13 hours ago, BigBud said:

How important would a EC/TDM meter be at this stage?

I am at a point where I don't use an EC meter often. If you are strictly using the GHE TriPart nutrients and follow the guide on the bottle strictly it will always be within the EC range as indicated in the guide. 

Although I will say that this confidence only came because I personally tested nutes for a long time with an EC meter and have used the same nutes for a while. 

13 hours ago, BigBud said:

im in the Northern Suburbs of Western Cape and hoping you're close-by :D. Else I'm practicing with bag seed XD.

Eish unfortunately not my hood 

Consider as @Leeroy420 says and get some bulk beans from @Biltong and Budz. When using bag seed you really do risk getting everything right and the bud still turning out jutt because pap genetics. At least with bought seeds you know what you should expect. 

[PsyCLown]

I'm over struggling. I added Atami to my cart and noticed it's slightly more expensive but convenient size.

How important would a EC/TDM meter be at this stage? This is something i wasn't too keen on getting into. Would i rather get a cheapy than upgrade my ph pen?
@Ill_Evan - im in the Northern Suburbs of Western Cape and hoping you're close-by :D. Else I'm practicing with bag seed XD.

Another question... How does feeding work? Is it every 3rd water or only once a deficiency is spotted. I also see most people saying to half the dose of nutes (ghe) which i did with my previous grow however, my plants stayed miniature.

I dont have the biggest setup but expected at least 100gs in the space (one day)
80*80 + TS1000

Much thanks again

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Haven't used Atami, I see they have some coco with amendments as well. Sigh. I do not understand why manufacturers do this or the benefit of this. I feel it just messes with what I want and throws out your nute ratios.
Anyways, which one did you get? Is it the plain coco and perlite?

An EC pen isn't necessary if you're using ghe tri part nutes, however it's a nice to have and a cheap one is perfect.
However with a pH pen, a higher quality one is wanted imo. Hm digital have a decent one for around R800 and it works really well.

In terms of feeding, I feed according to the ghe schedule and feed full strength and I give nutes with every feed.
I also do not water until run off, at least not on purpose, however no harm in doing so.
I also never flush. So I feed flower nutes up until I harvest.

Once you get use to coco, it just works really well. Simple and I find better growth compared to soil.

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[Ill_Evan]

1 hour ago, PsyCLown said:

Haven't used Atami, I see they have some coco with amendments as well.

They have two versions of coco, the High Porosity and the normal Coco Substrate.

I do believe the High Porosity has significantly less additional amendments than the Coco Substrate. 

I would say the High Porosity is closer to FF Classic than anything else. 

[BigBud]

Thinking of going with the normal High Porosity. I see now coco is more expensive than FF soil. Why though?

I also saw this FF coco and perlite mix: https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/freedom-farms-coco-perlite-growing-medium/

I have some perlite to add so still going for the more expensive coco from Atami. 

I wanted to get the HM P200 due to the electrode being swapable. The following seem to be a good deal that includes a ec meter.

Still have a lot of ghe trio so please check my grow journal in a month or two and help out there please.

[PsyCLown]

@BigBud this is a very nice coco, you can then just add some perlite to it if you want: https://gthydro.co.za/products/1032-test.html

 

Buying coco already buffered and ready can often be rather expensive, keep in mind most come from overseas where the soils are made locally. I suspect this is part of why the price is soo high.

Alternatively you can buy 5KG coco bricks, hydrate it and buffer it yourself and it will be much cheaper.

1x 5KG brick should expand to 60L to 80L generally, then if you add perlite it becomes even more.

 

The PH 200 should be fine, however check to see the pricing on a replacement probe vs a new PH80... Might make more sense to go for the PH80 depending on replacement probe prices .

 

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