LED light and U

[Prom]

I said I write a little guide, so here it comes.

How much is to much and how do I check it?

If you checked into lights to grow indoor, you will run into some fun diagrams of light foot prints. Those help you to put the lights at the right distance. All good lamps provide you with the hanging distances for each stage Germination, Vegetative and Flower. 

If you build your own lights, you run into the issue, that you are a bit clueless, how to hang your lamps. Best to get that sorted is a Quantum Flux Meter. It measures the PAR (the light relevant to plants) light arriving at the sensor and hang accordingly.

 I am in the lucky position, that a friend bought one. Expensive toys  You have one.. not telling you anything new.. Aim around 250 mmol for germination, around 500 mmol for Veg and 800-1200 mmol on flower.

If you do not have a Quantum Flux meter.. I made some tests with normal Lux meters for your phone.. lets call them mixed results. But... Germination and Veg it seems to work. I have issues reproducing my results on different lamp configurations for the high readings. Varies up to 20%, what is to off to get clear results. Strangely, the low reading were spot on.. we talk 2-4% variation.

I used Android tablet and phone, had the same readings .. using this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pardel.photometer&hl=en_US&gl=US

Put the phone/Tablet horizontal for all readings.

250 mmol should read 20k Lux

500 mmol 40k Lux

Everything above that was just going different readings depending on lamp configuration. But as it look rather linear to 500.. you could use that to put your plants at the right light. Yes, the lamps are really that far away during germination ^^

My single QBs and TS3 gave me the 80k Lux at 1000 mmol.. but 2 other lamps gave way weaker readings 60k Lux. And I used 5 different lamps, 3 different diodes. The Germination and Veg results were spot on. Try, let me know if your plants grow bigger now.

 

Now, you want to buy a good lamp.. -> store! You get help to select and a warranty on it, plus the instruction how to use the lamp.. so skip the Quantum Flux Thingy right away. Are those lamps really that good at 30k Rand? Yes, they are that good.

Do I need one of those to grow awesome dank? Nope... ^^ Is no rocket science to build a good decent lamp doing the job.. but if you are not in the mood.. buy one from the grow store.. LED!!!! nothing else they wanna sell you.

 

Size of the lamp is given by grow space. Don't go the other way around or you end up with a lamp way to big for your space. Why is that bad? What generates light these days, also generates heat. And as soon as you put a dimmer on.. you are back in the guessing game how far to hang now. Yes, light is way more tricky as fertilizer.. fertilizer come with clear instructions. Lights are more pointing in the right direction.

 

Why LED? 

For a home grower it is the best choice these days. Very reliable and low heat light source. The times for HID systems are over in the home grower circle. There are still good reasons to go MH/HPS, but not for any new starting person. No Sir, hands off!

LED are expensive! Really? I just build myself a 4QB setup for a 1.2mx1.2m tent.. 280$ with shipping. If that is to much.. thank god, you didn't started growing 30 years ago 

Buy or build.. but stick to LED.. very short section.. nothing to add really. 

 

What type of LED lamp?

The right selection will make your life way easier. Remember, light produces heat.. and to much heat is not good for your plants. We used a few lamps and come to certain conclusions

 

The no go Zone

Those lamps just "gather" the heat below and if you use such a setup in a single tent.. your airflow will suffer one SHITLOAD. I wouldn't go this way.. we have one of those.. and is the worst lamp of all for climate control. Other disadvantage, any uneven canape is very hard to handle.

 

Bar lights

Lets bring the disadvantage up, is the same like the lamp before.. if your canape goes very uneven.. will get more work. BUT.. airflow wise, they are awesome. Put the fan over the light and point down to cook up a storm.. cools light and plants and you lose no space to a ground standing fan. If I would have 2-3 sections to grow, the one for the big ones, I would use a bar light and just sort the canape to fit. Those lamps are doing a better light distribution and little resistance to your climate control.

Central configuration

Still monsters but at least compact and offer not as much airflow resistance like the ones with build in non lighting surface. You lose a lot more light strength to the side and they bring some heat to the center plants. My second last choice.

 

Single QB Build

Lets start with the disadvantage, you have to adapt more ratchets.. 4 instead of 2. 

Advantages are airflow and dynamic handling in regards to canape. The 150mm duct brings the fresh air and the oscillating one is top mounted. The QBs run without any heat sink, 2 per 240watt driver. I used 3mm tread rod to build the hangers. For one grow section, you don't care how the canape grows, you can handle dwarfs and bean stalks.

 

Hope it gave some ideas what to look for and what not to look for. Always remember.. light produces heat and heat needs to get removed. If your lights hinder you, they might be the reason why your plants stay on the smaller side.

 

DIY tips

You want to order and build? Read up! You need to read a bit and decide where to go.. and we mean spectrum frequencies ^^ All the LED light producers offer different frequencies for the diodes. For a grow light, my personal suggestion is to go with a 3000k 660nm board or a 3500k 660nm board. I avoid anything having more on it, like UV. The IR you want, that is a sexy wave length for flowering.

There are 301B and 301H diodes out. B gets sold as V2 and H as V3.. both work. The difference is the hardening layer on the diode, the rest is the same. H stands for Samsung's Horticulture range, better environmental resistance.. buh hu hehe go for the cheaper one if money is a issue and the expensive if you like to waste it a bit  QBs you get around 30-40$.. getting cheaper each year. Driver you can pick up anywhere you find it cheap.. i get mine from digi-key. If you are not in a rush, look for the free world wide express shipping they do from time to time.

You build such a lamp system in an hour in very stoned conditions or 30 mins sober  

Hope it helped somebody.. or I wasted quite a bit of time 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Prom
typossssssssss ^^

[Teal Smith]

Thanks for this Prom. I used an Android phone and the Doggo app with my QB bar lights and it seems my estimations were fairly close to your findings on the Photometer Pro App, no idea how close the Lux readings will be between the 2 apps. Anyway, for Germination I had it on 15K - 18K Lux, Veg - 40K-45K and flower was around 63K (Max @ around 40cm away, guess I can move them a bit closer as they run quite cool). I'll fine tune that closer to your recommendations next time. Will also try out the app you work with. Cheers

[GGG]

Great write up@Prom
I need to borrow/hire one of those sensors, espesially when I get to flower, atm I'm hanging my QB's between 20-35 cm away. I have no idee if I'm spot on or to much

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

[CreX]

shot for this mate!!

i personally have all my single QBs hanging at different heights like in your last example... and yea, it is a bit of a B to adjust, but the flexibility is second to none.

i spent a bit more time on my build than you did im sure... had to do it in increments and weekends hahaha 

i have wired up a dedicated 12v system that feeds each light in my grow for a little pc fan. I also have no heatsink, only the board and an alu plate, but with a fan for each unit.

as much as the boards can handle the heat, i add the fan because i ran some tests about a year ago where i tested the light output for a passively cooled and an actively cooled setup. both boards were at max output (120w) and the one with the fan put out a whopping 10% extra lumens according to my dinky toy phone sensor.. less heat equals less wasted energy equals higher light output!

 

Again, shot for a sweet write up man

[Prom]

21 minutes ago, GGG said:

Great write up@Prom
I need to borrow/hire one of those sensors, espesially when I get to flower, atm I'm hanging my QB's between 20-35 cm away. I have no idee if I'm spot on or to much

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk
 

To close was mainly a HID issue... foxtailing the result hehehe LED are not as tricky.. still you need good ventilation, if you go that close. I use 8 QBs total.. and I don't go closer as 40cm during flower to the canape (PAR wise).. some buds are closer. If you have just one long main cola, you might wanna go closer.. the part getting to much light, just can't use it and is wasted, if you don't run a CO2 generator. As long as it stays cool, good to go. Is one of the advantages with led. Radiation heat is not as dramatic as with a HID system.

[Prom]

12 minutes ago, CreX said:

shot for this mate!!

i personally have all my single QBs hanging at different heights like in your last example... and yea, it is a bit of a B to adjust, but the flexibility is second to none.

i spent a bit more time on my build than you did im sure... had to do it in increments and weekends hahaha 

i have wired up a dedicated 12v system that feeds each light in my grow for a little pc fan. I also have no heatsink, only the board and an alu plate, but with a fan for each unit.

as much as the boards can handle the heat, i add the fan because i ran some tests about a year ago where i tested the light output for a passively cooled and an actively cooled setup. both boards were at max output (120w) and the one with the fan put out a whopping 10% extra lumens according to my dinky toy phone sensor.. less heat equals less wasted energy equals higher light output!

 

Again, shot for a sweet write up man

 I just build the lamps for the tent.. CBD Charlottes Web.. Photos ^^ so 4 plants will go in it. 4 x 60 liter pots, wanna see if I can mainline the full area. Have Ruderalis growing too.. those calm me down from the weirdness to grow photos again  

I put the watt meter on and see if the boards get more hungry by time and heat. When I touch them after 30 mins, they run just hand warm. But sexy input.. I check it out. Thx!! 

[GGG]

To close was mainly a HID issue... foxtailing the result hehehe LED are not as tricky.. still you need good ventilation, if you go that close. I use 8 QBs total.. and I don't go closer as 40cm during flower to the canape (PAR wise).. some buds are closer. If you have just one long main cola, you might wanna go closer.. the part getting to much light, just can't use it and is wasted, if you don't run a CO2 generator. As long as it stays cool, good to go. Is one of the advantages with led. Radiation heat is not as dramatic as with a HID system.

My ventilation is ok for now, and like you say with LEDS you can go close, some main colas end up 10-15 cm away and no burning tip signs. Maybe CO2 will work in the summer in Cpt, I get my intake air straight from outside air and running 30+ alot of the time. I love winter grows.
Thx@Prom

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

[afternoon blazer]

16 hours ago, GGG said:

Great write up@Prom
I need to borrow/hire one of those sensors, espesially when I get to flower, atm I'm hanging my QB's between 20-35 cm away. I have no idee if I'm spot on or to much

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk
 

Rock 1 of the apps bro. Might not be 100 percent accurate but it would be close enough.

[PsyCLown]

Nice article, should help others out in terms of getting an idea on how to set everything up.

 

Single QB's work quite well, I have been running mine as such although want to move over to multiple dual QB setup as it will be easier to manage I feel an still offer the benefits of good airflow etc.

 

@Prom I see you run no heatsink, although you have an oscillating fan above which blows directly over them to cool them down, correct?

I still personally prefer a heatsink, however having a fan running over them is actually more effective than a passive heatsink. The cooler you can keep the lights the longer their life expectancy will be - they will degrade less over the same period of time when compared to lights at much higher temperatures.

 

 

[Prom]

4 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

 

@Prom I see you run no heatsink, although you have an oscillating fan above which blows directly over them to cool them down, correct?

 

Yes, correct. The main air entry is the 150mm duct (comes from another tent.. saving fans ^^), exit is a 6 inch inliner top of the tent and actually 2 oscillating fans top down for each side. The fans are not in yet.. ^^ still waiting for them to get delivered. Have the Photos with the Autos at the moment on 20/4, still germination phase. Put them on 18/6 once they go into the ready tent... I am rather sure Takealot will manage today to deliver hehehe.

The 40cm oscillating fans are more for the plants but will cool the lights automatically by doing their thing ^^ I like my tents more on the windy side 

[PsyCLown]

So currently no fan actively blowing over the QB's? Have you managed to take temperature readings for interest sake?

I'd imagine them to get quite hot without any cooling, especially if they're being run at 120W.

 

I also prefer more air circulation in the tent. Last grow I dropped the ball a bit with air circulation though.

I wonder if there isn't perhaps a cheap Lux meter one could purchase and use that to compare against PAR figures - the thought behind this is that each phone would have a different light sensor and I suspect that is where the variance comes in?

If one were to use the same phone (or model) or in this case the same lux meter, you could see what lux = say 1000 mmol and since they are all the same the variance shouldn't be as significant as it has been with different phones / tablets?

Or were the reading not consistent with the same phone / tablet even?

[Prom]

10 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

So currently no fan actively blowing over the QB's? Have you managed to take temperature readings for interest sake?

I'd imagine them to get quite hot without any cooling, especially if they're being run at 120W.

 

I also prefer more air circulation in the tent. Last grow I dropped the ball a bit with air circulation though.

I wonder if there isn't perhaps a cheap Lux meter one could purchase and use that to compare against PAR figures - the thought behind this is that each phone would have a different light sensor and I suspect that is where the variance comes in?

If one were to use the same phone (or model) or in this case the same lux meter, you could see what lux = say 1000 mmol and since they are all the same the variance shouldn't be as significant as it has been with different phones / tablets?

Or were the reading not consistent with the same phone / tablet even?

I made my readings with a Phone and a Tablet.. both gave the same readings. And I used the same items for any measurements. Over 500 micromol the lux reading wasn't the same depending on light configuration. The bar lamp showed very low figures beside the Quantum Flux Sensor, showing the 1000mmol. The bar distributes it the most even.. can't tell you why, was scratching my head a bit but I did the readings on different spots. Center and outside areas.. up to 500mmol worked like a charm.. already giggled that I do not need the Quantum Flux meter anymore.. but the high ones.. didn't really work. Best would still be to have somebody over with a Quantum Flux meter and tell you quickly your hanging sweets spots.. at the end it doesn't has to be 100% correct. The main issue most did wrong is the hanging distance for germination. That should work with the Lux meter.. 250mmol gave on all lamp configurations a reading around the 20k Lux mark. Would start from there ^^

Edited November 3, 2020 by Prom
tyop ^^

[Prom]

Needs a BUMP ^^

Edited February 3, 2021 by Prom
writing is pure luck in my case ^^

[Prom]

There is a nasty habit to sell grow lights with the wrong diodes declared. They do not use IM301, they use the old version IM281.

You can easy spot it on the shape of the diode. The IM301 is a SMD3030 chip class.. what means the diodes are 3.0x3.0 mm in shape.. perfect square.

The IM281 are SMD2835 chip class and are 2.8x3.5 mm in shape... check what you get or got. Doesn't matter if IM301 B or H, both same chip class. Not perfect square.. send back and ask for your money back.

If they want to sell a IM281 setup.. I would not buy that.. go for the more efficient newer diodes.

[PsyCLown]

LM281 - Around 80% of the efficiency compared to the LM301 diodes apparently. 

LM561C - old, a little less efficient compared to the LM301 but still a good diode. Probably won't find stock anymore due to its age. (5.6mm x 3.6mm)

LM301B/H - Great, this is the standard for grow light diodes now. A little more efficient compared to the LM561C and the LM281.